OSAS - I was wrong...again

[Abraham1st]

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (1 Jn 1:8–10)​

How does one wriggle out of these statements concerning their knowledge of their own sinfulness?

Cleansed from all righteousness, to either remain clean or to be as a swine to turn to your wallowing in filth again, to be according to the true proverb, as the dog returns to his vomit, so a fool returns to his folly AGAIN, as the Lord spoke peace unto His PEOPLE AND to His saints, they are instructed to NOT TURN AGAIN TO FOLLY.

Now that is fully testified again, how the escape from those pollutions of the world came by the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, ( to be cleansed from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS) but they are still entangled in it, and then overcome, and so they had known the way of righteousnes ( to be cleansed from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS) but after they knew it they turned from the holy commandment delivered unto them. ( to be free from unrighteousness/sin)


Psalm 85:8 I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.

Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members SERVANTS to righteousness unto holiness.


Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.


Romans 6:22 But now being made FREE FROM SIN, and BECOME SERVANTS TO GOD, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.




Context us this, to awake to what is the example, not grab on the words that are no example.



1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

 

[Abraham1st]

What else do you think is needed today?

Every good thing, which is in us by Christ Jesus.




Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

 

[Abraham1st]

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (1 Jn 1:8–10)​

How does one wriggle out of these statements concerning their knowledge of their own sinfulness?

How does one have sinfulness and not tell us all the details about it here, or is it a shame to speak of what is committed in the dark in secret, by people who say they are following the light which neither hides anything nor has to be covered up or to be ashamed of what causes DEATH/light causing no SHAME.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the END OF THOSE THINGS IS DEATH.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.



Belief is how to not be ashamed, also by for the same sanctification so that Christ is not ashamed to call us brothers.



Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

 

[Abraham1st]

So the testimony on this thread is a little clearer, we show the good and that we follow Jesus Christ, or we show not good, and that we follow something else then. once saved and always is not good, but to do good for others is good, including that they follow the good, and maybe see that Christ may be with you, who has the good feelings towards them in all.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

How does one have sinfulness and not tell us all the details about it here, or is it a shame to speak of what is committed in the dark in secret, by people who say they are following the light which neither hides anything nor has to be covered up or to be ashamed of what causes DEATH/light causing no SHAME.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the END OF THOSE THINGS IS DEATH.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Belief is how to not be ashamed, also by for the same sanctification so that Christ is not ashamed to call us brothers.

Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

I am not being deceitful here, but you are. It is evident that you know that teaching sinless perfection is forbidden on this sight because you are preaching its requirements while being careful to not state it directly. Not only is this deceitful, but it also is rule-breaking. Honesty is the best policy, even when it is inconvenient.

 

[Abraham1st]

More deceiving then.


Acts 5:28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

2 Corinthians 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[Guojing]

Every good thing, which is in us by Christ Jesus.




Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Including Luke 12:33, for example?

 

[Abraham1st]

Including Luke 12:33, for example?

Including very much, all things done by ritual and law and not by faith or righteousness.


Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Mathew 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

 

[Guojing]

Including very much, all things done by ritual and law and not by faith or righteousness.


Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Mathew 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

So have you obeyed Luke 12:33?

 

[Abraham1st]

So have you obeyed Luke 12:33?

obedience of faith, sure.


Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Philippians 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Guojing]

obedience of faith, sure.

But not Luke 12:33 literally?

 

[eleos1954]

You realized "renouncing Satan" is not in any of what you said?

Nuff said

Not giving into satan's temptations is a given for a Christian ... goes without saying

 

[FutureAndAHope]

When I was first saved a few years ago, I reluctantly subscribed to the doctrine of OSAS. It's a nice thought. Once you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work on the cross and resurrection, you're saved for all your sins past, present, and future. Done. But then I would listen to certain pastors, denominations, and even people's NDE's (experiences where people claim to have had direct revelation from God in dying). It shocked me to think that a "born again believer" could actually go to hell because they decided to abandon the faith, or they followed the wrong doctrines later in life, or they didn't show proper fruit and a proper repentance. I remember walking out of the Baptist church when I made my decision for Christ with conflicting thoughts recalling how the pastor informed me how one is saved; that all we need to do is believe and we will inherit eternal life quoting 1 John 5:13. He was right. But later I thought, Can it really be that simple? Emotions play on us, and we listen to the wrong "authority" or we read the wrong book, or watch the wrong video and we can find ourselves trying to please God through our bible reading or devotionals or good deeds, or even second guess our salvation altogether. Given the times we live the world is full of theological error and it's easy to get tripped up.

I found a really great resource I want to share: Andrew Farley has books and a YouTube channel. He has cleared up a lot of questions I had on many challenging verses which people often misinterpret. Andrew makes a great argument in one of his videos entitled, "What if fruit only grows in freedom?", how can we bear fruit if we're cheating on Jesus (grace) with Moses (the law).

*Edit: OSAS is true. Once we're sealed, we're sealed unto the time of redemption. Our names are written in the book of life. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.*

I have cut the following from my website to save time:

OSAS and Lawlessness​

Now let’s move to the issue of preservation of salvation. The acronym OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved. It is the logical conclusion of accepting Predestination. If God fixes destinies, if I am saved now, then I will always remain saved. The thinking that I will be saved no matter what can lead to (although not always) the thought that it does not matter if I sin, which in turn can lead to lawlessness, even a falling away from Christ.

To counter the thought of OSAS we will show from scripture that people can lose their salvation after receiving it.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (NKJV, Hebrews 6:4-6)​

The first passage shows us clearly, that people who were “once enlightened” - given sight by God, “have tasted the heavenly gift” and have even “become partakers of the Holy Spirit”, can fall away from God, and if they die in sin, will be crucifying Christ again.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” (NKJV, 2 Peter 2:20-22)​

Peter also shows this same fact, that people who have escaped the pollution of the world can again be entangled in them and lost.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:26-29)​

Hebrews states that there is a worse punishment for those who fell away knowing Christ.

Even Jesus Himself spoke of casting away people who draw away from Him.

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. (Rev 3:16)​

Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. (Rev 2:5)​

Lampstands in scripture refer to the Holy Spirit; so Revelation 2:5 is a very severe warning, if as a Christian we go back to sin, and don't repent, God will remove the Spirit from us.

So from the scriptures, we can see that OSAS is not logical.

Quoted from The Way and Freewill

 

[tdidymas]

I have cut the following from my website to save time:

OSAS and Lawlessness​

Now let’s move to the issue of preservation of salvation. The acronym OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved. It is the logical conclusion of accepting Predestination. If God fixes destinies, if I am saved now, then I will always remain saved. The thinking that I will be saved no matter what can lead to (although not always) the thought that it does not matter if I sin, which in turn can lead to lawlessness, even a falling away from Christ.

To counter the thought of OSAS we will show from scripture that people can lose their salvation after receiving it.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (NKJV, Hebrews 6:4-6)​

The first passage shows us clearly, that people who were “once enlightened” - given sight by God, “have tasted the heavenly gift” and have even “become partakers of the Holy Spirit”, can fall away from God, and if they die in sin, will be crucifying Christ again.

Nowhere in this description does it say that such a person was born of God. In fact, it's the ideal description of Judas Iscariot, whom Jesus called "a devil" and "the son of perdition." But notice in v. 9 he says he believes "better things" concerning them, regarding their salvation. So then, the "better things" are obviously better than any of the things listed in v. 4-6. Salvation is that "better thing," meaning they are born of God who fears God and trusts the work of Jesus.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” (NKJV, 2 Peter 2:20-22)​

Peter also shows this same fact, that people who have escaped the pollution of the world can again be entangled in them and lost.

Those going to church may have escaped corruption of the world, but doesn't guarantee they are born again. Even religious Jews escape the corruption of the world, and monks of the ages. It doesn't guarantee they are born again. Jesus said, "not everyone who calls Me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven," which shows that some people calling themselves 'Christian' are not born again. I have heard people who appeared to repent and follow Jesus later say "it didn't work for me," which shows that they never did believe in the healing power of Christ.

In this section, Peter is talking about false teachers who got to know religious jargon and acted out the faith in some way, but turned back to their sinful nature to indulge in it. If they had been born again, they would not have been false teachers (teaching wrong doctrine) and giving in to their fleshly passions. If the Holy Spirit dwells in the believer, this person will actually follow Christ because this person actually believes in Him. Thus, John says, "they went out from us to show they did not belong to us," meaning those falling away were never believers. If someone claims to believe, it doesn't make them a true believer, according to James ch. 2.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:26-29)​

Hebrews states that there is a worse punishment for those who fell away knowing Christ.

The willful sin he is talking about is rejecting the work of the Messiah, to go back to animal sacrifices and religious rituals for God's acceptance. "They did not enter [sabbath rest] because of their unbelief." Since Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice for sins, to reject His sacrifice out of unbelief is to expect the fiery judgment of God, because there is no other sacrifice that can atone for sin. Therefore, to reject Jesus' sacrificial work is to "trample the Son of God underfoot, count the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insult the Spirit of grace." With all the evidence presented, then, to reject Christ's work as sufficient to redeem, is the ultimate sin, calling God a liar. This is the sin that the writer of Hebrews is talking about.

Even Jesus Himself spoke of casting away people who draw away from Him.

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. (Rev 3:16)​

Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. (Rev 2:5)​

Lampstands in scripture refer to the Holy Spirit; so Revelation 2:5 is a very severe warning, if as a Christian we go back to sin, and don't repent, God will remove the Spirit from us.

No, the lampstands are the churches - see Rev. 1:20, it's defined clearly.

So from the scriptures, we can see that OSAS is not logical.

Quoted from The Way and Freewill

OSAS is not logical for someone who doesn't know how to correctly interpret scripture. Peter wrote, we "are kept by the power of God for salvation..." - so the one who doesn't believe they are kept by the power of God will not experience the OSAS peace.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

No, the lampstands are the churches - see Rev. 1:20, it's defined clearly.

That is because the churches have the Holy Spirit.

Do a study of Zechariah 4.

Zec 4:2 And he said to me, "What do you see?" So I said, "I am looking, and there is a lampstand of solid gold with a bowl on top of it, and on the stand seven lamps with seven pipes to the seven lamps.​

​

Zec 4:10 For who has despised the day of small things? For these seven rejoice to see The plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. They are the eyes of the LORD, Which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth."​

These seven are depicted as the LORD.

Zec 4:14 So he said, "These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth."​

The Holy Spirit is depicted as a lampstand or the seven eyes of the LORD. In the Book of Revelation, Jesus is depicted as having the same Holy Spirit.

Rev 5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.​

Candles or fire represent the Holy Spirit. The true church is represented as candles because they are filled with the Holy Spirit.

But when talking of an individual in the church. It refers to removing the Holy Spirit.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.​

 

[Abraham1st]

OSAS is not logical for someone who doesn't know how to correctly interpret scripture. Peter wrote, we "are kept by the power of God for salvation..." - so the one who doesn't believe they are kept by the power of God will not experience the OSAS peace.

You cant interpret scripture, scripture was given as holy men were moved by the Holy Ghost, so it has to be by the same Holy Ghost.


Kept through faith, through the trail of your faith, though it is tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ, who we love, believing, rejoice with unspeakable joy, and full of glory. To receive the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.



1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




THEN BE SOBER, AND HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE TO BE BROUGHT TO US AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST.

AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, NOT IN YOUR FORMER LUST IN YOUR IGNORANCE, BUT HE WHICH HAS CALLED YOU IS HOLY, SO BE YOU HOLY.

AND IF YOU CALL ON THE FATHER, HE JUDGES ACCORDING TO EVERY MANS WORK, WITH NO RESPECT OF EPRSONS, SO PASS YUR TME HERE IN FEAR.

YOU WERE REDEEMED WITH PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRISST, NOT CORRUPTIBLE THINGS, AS A LAMB WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH.

SEEEING YOU HAVE PURIFIED YOUR SOULS IN OBEYING GHE TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT, UNTO UNFEIGNED LOVE OF THE BROTHERS, SEE THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER WITH A PURE HEART FERVENTLY.

BEING BORN AGAIN NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE BY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH LIVES AND ABIDES FOREVER.




1 Peter 1:3 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[tdidymas]

You cant interpret scripture, scripture was given as holy men were moved by the Holy Ghost, so it has to be by the same Holy Ghost.

Unfortunately, everyone with a dogma claims they got it from the Holy Ghost, so why are so many dogmas are in contradiction?

Just the fact that you are trying to explain something from scripture means you're interpreting it - that's the definition of interpretation.

But if you can't agree with that, then don't respond, I'm not going to argue with you over words.

 

[tdidymas]

That is because the churches have the Holy Spirit.

Do a study of Zechariah 4.

Zec 4:2 And he said to me, "What do you see?" So I said, "I am looking, and there is a lampstand of solid gold with a bowl on top of it, and on the stand seven lamps with seven pipes to the seven lamps.​

​

Zec 4:10 For who has despised the day of small things? For these seven rejoice to see The plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. They are the eyes of the LORD, Which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth."​

These seven are depicted as the LORD.

Zec 4:14 So he said, "These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth."​

The Holy Spirit is depicted as a lampstand or the seven eyes of the LORD. In the Book of Revelation, Jesus is depicted as having the same Holy Spirit.

Rev 5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.​

Candles or fire represent the Holy Spirit. The true church is represented as candles because they are filled with the Holy Spirit.

But when talking of an individual in the church. It refers to removing the Holy Spirit.

​

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.​

What I see is scripture taken out of context, and you jumping to a false conclusion. I don't think we could ever see eye-to-eye, so this conversation is over.

 

[Guojing]

OSAS is not logical for someone who doesn't know how to correctly interpret scripture. Peter wrote, we "are kept by the power of God for salvation..." - so the one who doesn't believe they are kept by the power of God will not experience the OSAS peace.

OSAS is only found in Pauline epistles, so its part of the revelation of the mystery to the Body of Christ.

 

[tdidymas]

OSAS is only found in Pauline epistles, so its part of the revelation of the mystery to the Body of Christ.

In John 6 and elsewhere it speaks of "never perish," "no one can take...," etc., 1 Pet. 1:5, Heb. 6:19, and many other places. Almost all the writers of the NT teach eternal security, and Heb. and 2 Pet. exhorts people to make certain of it. So your idea that it's only taught by Paul is erroneous.