Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Only if they die before sinning ie: unborn babies etc....already mentioned this in this thread.
Like I mentioned earlier, Pelagianism.
-CryptoLutheran
Irrelevant. Babies have no sin.
No personal sin, no. But each and every one of us enters this world a sinner, nobody enters the world free from the effects and consequences of the problem of sin.
And the problem of Pelagianism is not irrelevant, it's very much relevant. Pelagianism is heresy and firmly outside of acceptable Christian orthodoxy. Pelagianism is a fundamental rejection of the Gospel.
I disagree. This is not a scriptural teaching. Scripture teaches we receive the same death Adam did when we sin. Nothing at all about anything tainting us from birth....we are tainted only by our own personal sins.
You misuse apply this:
Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid. This theological theory is named after the British monk Pelagius (354–420 or 440), although he denied, at least at some point in his life, many of the doctrines associated with his name. Pelagius taught that the human will, as created with its abilities by God, was sufficient to live a sinless life, although he believed that God's grace assisted every good work. Pelagianism has come to be identified with the view, (whether Pelagius agreed or not), that human beings can earn salvation by their own efforts.
A baby being born sinless is not "Pelagianism" nor is it only about original sin not tainting humans. It involves many things. Original sin did not taint humans, that is scriptural....original sin is not scriptural.
If one enters the world perfectly free, and is therefore free to live righteously without the struggle of sin within them, then what need is there for anything but the strength of will to live a righteous life?
If we submit that one is born perfectly free and just and is only made a sinner once they have committed their first sin, then how do we make sense of the universal problem of sin? Or else is it not a universal problem, but only a problem for some.
Even before I found this information from the Talmud I have always felt that David was lamenting the choices he made and that he felt he was filthy from before birth. Whether you accept this version of David's life he had made bad choicesI found this and thought it was very interesting
http://www.chabad.org/thejewishwoman/article_cdo/aid/280331/jewish/nitzevet-mother-of-david.htm
We don't become sinners until we understand the lawNo personal sin, no. But each and every one of us enters this world a sinner, nobody enters the world free from the effects and consequences of the problem of sin.
And the problem of Pelagianism is not irrelevant, it's very much relevant. Pelagianism is heresy and firmly outside of acceptable Christian orthodoxy. Pelagianism is a fundamental rejection of the Gospel.
-CryptoLutheran
We don't become sinners until we understand the law
Even though you may break the law and the consequences are the same it does not mean you repent if you didn't know the law. If a person does not have the experience to understand the law or its consequences the atonement covers this without the need for repentance.You understand Law by default. The criminals in your country don't read law books before they are sent to prison, do they?
Even human legal system will have to rely on the Law God has written in our hearts to work at all fundamentally.
We don't become sinners until we understand the law
Didn't say it wasn't. I drive school bus with all ages. been doing it for over twenty years. One thing I have learned is that a kindergartener does not hold back their opinion no matter how hurtful it can be. They don't do it to hurt the other person for the most part they tell it like it is. They don't get it that it is rude.Knowing or not knowing the law is irrelevant. Hurting another person is still wrong.
-CryptoLutheran
Which is where you err and deviate from the Biblical description of sin and original sin. See Romans 3:23 and a host of others.We don't become sinners until we understand the law
Oh I forgot you hang on every word as if God wrote it down himself.
Do you listen to yourselves? You say God doesn't have the power to program Adam and Eve to be perfect but has the power to have a perfect bible.Hi Fatboys, it's true that God didn't "write" the words of the Bible down Himself, but we believe the words of Holy Scripture are His nonetheless (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20-21).
If you believe the Bible is only partially the word of God, on what basis do you decide which parts of it are really from Him and which parts aren't? Or do you believe that the Bible is simply a collection of men's musings about God and that NONE of the words were ever actually His?
Thanks!
--David
The bible has been watered down or changed from the original intent. I'm not saying the bible is partially false. I'm saying that because God has to work with imperfect men the result is not going to be perfect. The second Gods word reaches mans ears it becomes imperfect. The bible has not only imperfect prophets to deal with but those who handled it and copied it were imperfect. I mean look at the thousand of different interpretations it has. Was Gods intent to have so many different interpretations? "One lord, One faith, On baptism".I know, I know, for some CRAZY reason God decided to make man in His own image, which included giving us, "Free Will"But no one would ever say that He didn't have the power to make Adam/Eve (and the rest of us for that matter) into robots if He wanted to, He being omnipotent and all.
No doubt it took both skill and a bit of power for God to get the human authors of the Bible to write His words down just the way He wanted them, but I'm thinking there are at least a couple of things He's done that probably required even more skill, effort, and power on His part than that, starting with Genesis 1:1
Yours and His,
David
p.s. - so if you believe the Bible is only partially the word of God, on what basis do you decide which parts of it are really from Him and which parts aren't? Or do you believe that the Bible is simply a collection of men's musings about God and that NONE of the words were ever actually His?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?