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Original Sin is not the teaching that we are punished for Adam's sin. Original Sin is the teaching that because of Adam's original sin we have inherited Adam's sinful disposition or concupiscience.
As far as Scriptural support,
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned" - Romans 5:12
-CryptoLutheran
The concept of Original Sin is a late Christian notion (2nd Century). It has no foundation in the Hebrew Scriptures (Tanakh).
If Gnosticism would have won we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
If you want scriptural support I’d look in the Greek Scriptures
I have to disagree with you, original sin has foundation in the Hebrew Scriptures.
See God's response to the first sin below...He pronounces curses upon Adam and Eve, thus He identifies their sin and also responds to it.
13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” [the sin]
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Also.....
Exodus 20:4-6:
You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children
for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
and...
Jeremiah 31:29-34:
29 “In those days people will no longer say,
‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.
31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
So original sin did exist or was viewed as such in O.T. just as Romans declares. Exodus and Jeremiah above remind us of this. Jeremiah goes further and describes that there will be a future change of the LAW...referring to the changes to accompany the birth and reign of the Messiah.
That doesn't support your theory. It says people receive death (spiritual death) because they sin. We have not inherited Adam's sinful disposition or concupiscience.
Nothing in the text refers to "spiritual death", it just says death.
So are you arguing for Pelagianism then? That we are born in the same state Adam was when he was created and it is, therefore, possible to live a just and holy life through one's own ability?
No. I argue that Adam was created mortal as all humans are. Adam's sin did not cause him to physically die.
And yet the text still says through Adam came sin into the world.
Curious: Do you believe in the physical resurrection of the body?
Original sin ie: sin passed down from Adam or parents to children is not found in any of those scriptures.
"30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge." makes this obvious.
I don't think you read my post with a critical enough eye, and I was too brief in my summary.
Genesis (the Hebrew text) gives the account of the first sin and God declaring the curses that would result (as well as the promise of a Savior). Eve, it also states, was to become the mother of ALL the living...so no one escapes the curse of sin for the mother of all is sinful and under the curse.
Exodus 20:5-6:
I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children
for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
[This contradicts your notion that each individual died for his own sin under the LAW and your claim that it proves no original sin].
Jeremiah 31:29-34
These passages state that there will be changes ushered in with the coming of the Messiah...
verse 29: In those days people will no longer say,
‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
Instead, everyone will die for their own sin;
(The words *no longer* and *instead* indicate that this once was the case.
Therefore, original sin was recognized as such from the beginning just as hinted by the actions taken in the garden.
That pronouncement from Adam does not have anything to do with a curse nor sin nor is Adam even correct in his declaration.
Wrong. These children hate the Lord and are punished for their own sins, not of their parents sins. You are misreading the verse which is very common.
It was once "said" not that it was ever true. No child inherits their parents sins.
No, the original sin doctrine is man made and has no scriptural support. We ourselves sin, and we pay for our sins only.
That pronouncement from Adam does not have anything to do with a curse nor sin nor is Adam even correct in his declaration.
Wrong. These children hate the Lord and are punished for their own sins, not of their parents sins. You are misreading the verse which is very common.
It was once "said" not that it was ever true. No child inherits their parents sins.
No, the original sin doctrine is man made and has no scriptural support. We ourselves sin, and we pay for our sins only.
YOUR OWN ideas...totally unfounded...and you are unwilling to examine the Scriptures. BTW, God's Word, in the N.T., proves I understood and you did not. See Romans as you were already directed.
Jeremiah 32:17-19:
17 “Ah, Sovereign Lord, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you. 18 You show love to thousands but bring the punishment for the parents’ sins into the laps of their children after them. Great and mighty God, whose name is the Lord Almighty, 19 great are your purposes and mighty are your deeds. Your eyes are open to the ways of all mankind; you reward each person according to their conduct and as their deeds deserve.
(Read this one if you care to critique my understandings)
Symbolically but we all know the serpent sinned before Adam did.
lol, of course:
1Co_15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Do you believe Jesus was/is the Messiah?
My point however is that the text says that through Adam came sin and death. That's what the text says, trying to suggest the text means sin and death didn't come into the world through Adam is having it completely wrong.
It's something universally common to all people, not just a few. All of us screw up, all have sinned, nobody is just. (c.f. Romans chapters 3-5)
I ask because the way you're talking it seemed to suggest that the only kind of death that is significant is "spiritual death" as opposed to, you know, death.
Christ saves us from death, because He was raised up from the dead, and our hope in Him is that we, too, will be raised from the dead, physically and bodily.
I have to disagree with you, original sin has foundation in the Hebrew Scriptures.
The story of Adam and Eve has nothing to do with an ‘original sin.’ It has nothing to do with ‘sin’ at all.
People sin for many various reasons....not because we have inherited anything from Adam.
Hi ewq, while what you say might be possible on a different scale, the effect of sin is evident in all who have ever lived, and that by a very young age. IOW, "NO ONE is perfect", right
An effect as universal as this one, one that spans our race and includes everyone from our progenitors to all of their progeny (save One), must have a single "cause". And if our first parents are not the "cause", then there is only one other Being who could be, which would make Him, not us, the author of evil, sin and death.
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