Origin of Satan

[Radrook]

Judas: “Once Saved” – “Forever Lost”

He was once an Apostle but turned against Jesus. He was also a thief.

The Wonderful Truth: Judas the thief

 

[Sammy-San]

He was once an Apostle but turned against Jesus. He was also a thief.

The Wonderful Truth: Judas the thief

What is your view on those comments?

 

[miknik5]

To this day, Christian baptism requires a person to solemnly" renounce the devil and all his works" and to accept exorcism. Rereading biblical and extra biblical accounts of angels, I learned first of all what many scholars have pointed out: that while angels often appear in the Hebrew Bible, Satan, along with other fallen angels or demonic beings, is virtually absent. Source: MY COPY of The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels, introduction xvi, Copyright 1995
So why does anyone even want to think there is a supernatural being such as a Satan that can never die and would have to be immortal if he was equal unto the angels and still lives after 6,000 years, when Luke says those that obtain resurrection Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Where does that leave the Satan Theory?

Elaine Pagel?
I'm not sure she would be a good source to use

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Is Hebrew the language of heaven?

Whether it is or not is not relevant but I wonder what you thought.

Everything created could have been created through the Hebrew letters. Like DNA has combinations or sequences of adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C) and thymine (T), so too combinations of the 22 Hebrew letters were used to form creation. Genesis 1:3...God SAID...words are made up of letters...

 

[he-man]

Elaine Pagel?
I'm not sure she would be a good source to use

Please address what she said and do not try to belittle or attack a person. What Exactly do you not agree with and why?
The author of Daniel envisions no sectarian enemy, either human or divine. Grieved as he is at Israel's sins, he never condemns man'', Much less the majority, of his people as apostate; Consequently, he never speaks of Satan, Sernihazah, Azazel, Mastema, Belial, or fallen angels of any kind.
.Although there are no devils in Daniel's world. there are angels, and there are enemies. The author presents the alien enemies, rulers of the Persian, Medean, and Hellenistic empires, in traditional visionary imagery, as monstrous beasts. In one vision, the first beast is `'like a lion with eagles" wings"; the second "like a bear," Ferociously devouring its prey; the third like a leopard "with four wings of a bird on its back and four heads"; and "a fourth beast [is] terrible and dreadful and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet." In another vision, Daniel sees a horned ram that the angel Gabriel explains to him "is the king of Greece." Throughout the visions of Daniel, such monstrous animals represent foreign rulers and nations who threaten Israel. When Daniel, trembling with awe and terror, prays for his people, he is rewarded with divine assurance that all Israelites who remain true to God will survive (12:1-3). Thus the book of Daniel powerfully reaffirms the integrity of Israel's moral and ethnic identity. It is for this reason, I suggest, that Daniel, unlike such other apocalyptic books as the Book of the Watchers and Jubilees, is included in the canonical collection that we call the Hebrew Bible and not relegated to the apocrypha. 54-56 / THE ORIGIN OF SATAN Copyright 1995 by Eileen Pagels and scanned from MY Book.
The Lord explains Genesis 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? (7) If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." KJV

 

[he-man]

Regarding immortality, angels do not die, so, yes we will be equal in that since after we are glorified. Satan however will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, as will all people who reject salvation, and they will never die in the Lake of Fire.

If the Satan is an Angel, then he would have to be immortal. However, if the adversary is simply those who oppose God and mankind like Daniel says: The author presents the alien enemies, rulers of the Persian, Medean, and Hellenistic empires, in traditional visionary imagery, as monstrous beasts. Consequently, he never speaks of Satan, Sernihazah, Azazel, Mastema, Belial, or fallen angels of any kind. Although there are no devils in Daniel's world. there are angels, and there are enemies.
As the Lord said to Cain: Genesis 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? (7) If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." KJV

 

[he-man]

Judas: “Once Saved” – “Forever Lost”

Peter was straying away from what he had been taught and Jesus admonishes him to return back to the way he was taught and obey God not men. Mt 16:23 But he turned around and said unto Peter, Get back behind me, adversary: you are a hammer to me: because you think not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

[he-man]

@he-man
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

What and who are the devils? Ps 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Mat 23:14
Zep 3:3 Her rulers within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
Pro 28:15 As a roaring lion, and a ranging bear; so is a wicked ruler over the poor people.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1Pet 5:8 KJV Eze 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
What does the Lord say?
And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." KJV Genesis 4:7

 

[miknik5]

Please address what she said and do not try to belittle or attack a person. What Exactly do you not agree with and why?
The author of Daniel envisions no sectarian enemy, either human or divine. Grieved as he is at Israel's sins, he never condemns man'', Much less the majority, of his people as apostate; Consequently, he never speaks of Satan, Sernihazah, Azazel, Mastema, Belial, or fallen angels of any kind.
.Although there are no devils in Daniel's world. there are angels, and there are enemies. The author presents the alien enemies, rulers of the Persian, Medean, and Hellenistic empires, in traditional visionary imagery, as monstrous beasts. In one vision, the first beast is `'like a lion with eagles" wings"; the second "like a bear," Ferociously devouring its prey; the third like a leopard "with four wings of a bird on its back and four heads"; and "a fourth beast [is] terrible and dreadful and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet." In another vision, Daniel sees a horned ram that the angel Gabriel explains to him "is the king of Greece." Throughout the visions of Daniel, such monstrous animals represent foreign rulers and nations who threaten Israel. When Daniel, trembling with awe and terror, prays for his people, he is rewarded with divine assurance that all Israelites who remain true to God will survive (12:1-3). Thus the book of Daniel powerfully reaffirms the integrity of Israel's moral and ethnic identity. It is for this reason, I suggest, that Daniel, unlike such other apocalyptic books as the Book of the Watchers and Jubilees, is included in the canonical collection that we call the Hebrew Bible and not relegated to the apocrypha. 54-56 / THE ORIGIN OF SATAN Copyright 1995 by Eileen Pagels and scanned from MY Book.
The Lord explains Genesis 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? (7) If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." KJV

Elaine pagel is not born of CHRIST's SPIRIT

She reasons in her own human/carnal spirit and can not know the things of GOD that can only be discerned by HIS SPIRIT

1 Corinthians 1 through 1 Corinthians 2

 

[miknik5]

her giving instructions to men on what GOD said and really meant by HIS WORD, is no different than what Satan did

She may not understand what she is doing but that is what she is doing instructing Cain to master himself without instructing Cain that he has A MASTER first and foremost and should go to HIM

THAT IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

 

[he-man]

Has the argument that the angel opposing Balaam justifies a belief in a Satan ever actually been made? If it has, it would be totally illogical since clearly that angel was a holy angel doing God's will.

so that the concept of Satan as a distinct being was not then known. JewishEncyclopedia.com
The author of Daniel envisions no sectarian enemy, either human or divine. Grieved as he is at Israel's sins, he never condemns man'', Much less the majority, of his people as apostate; Consequently, he never speaks of Satan, Sernihazah, Azazel, Mastema, Belial, or fallen angels of any kind.
.Although there are no devils in Daniel's world. there are angels, and there are enemies. The author presents the alien enemies, rulers of the Persian, Medean, and Hellenistic empires. THE ORIGIN OF SATAN Copyright 1995 by Eileen Pagels and scanned from MY Book.

As for Israel not having the slightest notion of any entity which was in opposition to God from the very start, that sounds a bit quaint since obviously the serpent spoke just as the mule spoke and the mule spoke only because it was being used as a puppet by an angelic being. Even a child can see what that obviously implies concerning that serpent's ability to do the same.

They also had the book of Job which explicitly refers to an entity in opposition to God and refers to him as Satan..

The book' of Job, too, describes the satan as a supernatural messenger, a member of God's royal court: But while Balaam's satan protects him frcim harm, Job's satan takes a more adversarial role. Here the Lord himself admits that the satan incited him to act against Job. (2:3 )..The story begins where the Satan appears as an angel, a "son of.God"-(ben'elohim), a term that,.in Hebrew idiom, often means "one Of the divine beings." Here this angel; the satan, comes with 'the rest of the heavenly. Host; on the day. appointed for them to "present themselves before the Lord.” When the Lord asks whence he Comes, the satan answers, "From roaming on the earth, and walking up and down, on it."-Here the., storyteller plays on the similarity between the' sound of the Hebrew satan and shut, the Hebrew word "to roam;" Suggesting that the satan's special role,in the heavenly court is that of a kind of roving intelligence agent, like those whom many Jews of the time would have known—and detested—from the king of Persia's elaborate system of secret police and intelligence officers`. Known is "the king's eye" or "the king's,ear," those agents roamed the empire looking for signs of disloyalty among the people.,
God boasts to the satan about one of his most loyal subjects: `Have you considered my servant Job, that there is no one like, him on earth, a blessed and upright-man, who fears God and turns away from evil?", The, satan then challenges the Lord to put Job to the testJob was written around (550 B.C.E.) THE ORIGIN OF SATAN Copyright 1995 by Eileen Pagels and scanned from MY Book.
Then Job addresses them and says: Job_19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

 

[miknik5]

Please explain how Cain can eat from the tree of LIFE before he begins mastering his flesh which will certainly die and which certainly no man is able to "master" from dying

 

[miknik5]

so that the concept of Satan as a distinct being was not then known. JewishEncyclopedia.com
The author of Daniel envisions no sectarian enemy, either human or divine. Grieved as he is at Israel's sins, he never condemns man'', Much less the majority, of his people as apostate; Consequently, he never speaks of Satan, Sernihazah, Azazel, Mastema, Belial, or fallen angels of any kind.
.Although there are no devils in Daniel's world. there are angels, and there are enemies. The author presents the alien enemies, rulers of the Persian, Medean, and Hellenistic empires. THE ORIGIN OF SATAN Copyright 1995 by Eileen Pagels and scanned from MY Book.

The book' of Job, too, describes the satan as a supernatural messenger, a member of God's royal court: But while Balaam's satan protects him frcim harm, Job's satan takes a more adversarial role. Here the Lord himself admits that the satan incited him to act against Job. (2:3 )..The story begins where the Satan appears as an angel, a "son of.God"-(ben'elohim), a term that,.in Hebrew idiom, often means "one Of the divine beings." Here this angel; the satan, comes with 'the rest of the heavenly. Host; on the day. appointed for them to "present themselves before the Lord.” When the Lord asks whence he Comes, the satan answers, "From roaming on the earth, and walking up and down, on it."-Here the., storyteller plays on the similarity between the' sound of the Hebrew satan and shut, the Hebrew word "to roam;" Suggesting that the satan's special role,in the heavenly court is that of a kind of roving intelligence agent, like those whom many Jews of the time would have known—and detested—from the king of Persia's elaborate system of secret police and intelligence officers`. Known is "the king's eye" or "the king's,ear," those agents roamed the empire looking for signs of disloyalty among the people.,
God boasts to the satan about one of his most loyal subjects: `Have you considered my servant Job, that there is no one like, him on earth, a blessed and upright-man, who fears God and turns away from evil?", The, satan then challenges the Lord to put Job to the testJob was written around (550 B.C.E.) THE ORIGIN OF SATAN Copyright 1995 by Eileen Pagels and scanned from MY Book.
Then Job addresses them and says: Job_19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Daniel is grieved by the works of men

Will you say that these are the works of Cain who hasn't mastered himself?

 

[he-man]

Elaine pagel is not born of CHRIST's SPIRIT She reasons in her own human/carnal spirit and can not know the things of GOD that can only be discerned by HIS SPIRIT1 Corinthians 1 through 1 Corinthians 2

What then do you not agree with? How about John?
Joh12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

 

[miknik5]

What then do you not agree with? How about John?
Joh12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Is there a Satan
Yes or no

Since we want to speak clearly

Our yes should be yes and our no should be no

Anything else is ______

 

[JackRT]

Elaine pagel is not born of CHRIST's SPIRIT

She reasons in her own human/carnal spirit and can not know the things of GOD that can only be discerned by HIS SPIRIT

1 Corinthians 1 through 1 Corinthians 2

And how do you know this? Perhaps she is discerning by the Spirit and you are lacking.

 

[miknik5]

By the way, JOB had hope in
HIS REDEEMER so he waited out his season of suffering while the HEDGE was (temporarily) removed

 

[miknik5]

And how do you know this? Perhaps she is discerning by the Spirit and you are lacking.

She's not. I have read some of her works and she is more about a dual personality within a person. A good and a bad essence

 

[he-man]

I think this is a weak argument of the author when taking the Job account. This satan of Job 1:17 makes clear that he simply wanders and goes "to and fro" . There is no evidence he is a member of some divine council that presumably had their "offices" in [third] heaven.
In fact I should be flattered as a Greek Orthodox christian by her entire theory of a celestial prosecutor because what she is describing is not the conclusion of studying OT texts. She has actually borrowed her entire theory from certain demonology teaching of Eastern Orthodoxy.

How about the JewishEncyclopedia.com SATAN – ...likewise used to denote an antagonist who puts obstacles in the way, as in Num. xxii. 32, where the angel of God is described as opposing Balaam in the guise of a satan or adversary; so that the concept of Satan as a ...distinct being was not then known.

 

[miknik5]

How about the JewishEncyclopedia.com SATAN – ...likewise used to denote an antagonist who puts obstacles in the way, as in Num. xxii. 32, where the angel of God is described as opposing Balaam in the guise of a satan or adversary; so that the concept of Satan as a ...distinct being was not then known.

So get a RIGHT COVERING
And keep it