Order without Intelligence

[CoderHead]

Do you think Mount Rushmore carved itself by accident?

How about the Mona Lisa, did nature just spill the paint there by chance?

Are you implying that the same "Intelligent Designer" who created the universe also carved Mount Rushmore and painted the Mona Lisa? Was Mount Rushmore created the way we see it today during the creation of Earth? Why doesn't every mountain on the planet have faces carved into it? Why doesn't every single piece of canvas on the planet have an artistic masterpiece painted on it?

 

[Belk]

*Sigh*

I'll never cease to be amazed at the ability of people to go off topic, and I note that it is mainly a bunch of creationists who want to take the thread to a place where they feel they can just thumb their noses at what everyone else thinks.

So, can we get back on topic and start discussing the actual question at hand - Can anyone show me that order MUST come from an intelligent agency?

The order we see around us is inherent to the universe. Therefore the only way to determine if intelligence is required would be to determine if the universe was created by an intelligent agency. People who try to use order to prove the universe was designed are putting the cart before the horse.

 

[CoderHead]

The human mind has a tendency to see order where there is none. Even the Mona Lisa, as ordered and intentional as it may be, is still just a bunch of paint splotches on a piece of canvas. It's not an actual woman.

 

[BananaSlug]

God did not embed age into pottery.

So how did the age get there? The dating of pottery is based on when the pottery was fired. How did the age get there?


Back to the topic....

"Order" has several different meanings. The two that seem to best fit this definition of "order" are:
1. A condition of logical or comprehensible arrangement among the separate elements of a group.
2. A condition of methodical or prescribed arrangement among component parts such that proper functioning or appearance is achieved.

A common misconception is that "order" has to be due to an "intelligent" force. In the eyes of a creationists, the opposite of order is chaos when in reality the opposite of order is disorder (things being out of place).

The question is can we find examples of order without an intelligent cause? Definitely.

These markings appear pretty orderly, yet it was wind or water that shaped them.

Even with just one example we have falsified that intelligence is required to produce order. Let's see if we can find just one more...

Crystals!!!!!! There are countless examples of researchers finding crystals growing in deep underground caverns. No intelligence is required to form these often spectacular and intriguing minerals.

If you want to argue that snowflakes, crystals and rainbows are caused by a deity, then provide an experiment that could show a deity was the cause. If you cannot then our natural explanations work just as well. Order without an Intelligence.

 

[Tiberius]

Do you think Mount Rushmore carved itself by accident?

How about the Mona Lisa, did nature just spill the paint there by chance?

so while order CAN come from intelligence, it does not have to.

In fact, there is a clear intention behind Mt Rushmore and the Mona Lisa. Both were made purposely to represent people. Is there such a purpose behind the order found in a snowflake? or in the way cornflakes arrange themselves inside the box? There is not.