Oprah says there can not possibly be only one way to God.

[TreeOfLife]

Sad as this may sound, I have found that sometimes "good" people's "goodness" is a bigger obstacle to them accepting Christ than "bad" people's "badness".

In fact, I'm positive it's easier for the jerks.

(Thank God for that! )

 

[angelwind]

Sad as this may sound, I have found that sometimes "good" people's "goodness" is a bigger obstacle to them accepting Christ than "bad" people's "badness".

In fact, I'm positive it's easier for the jerks.

(Thank God for that! )

You might be right there...the Pharisees had quite a bone to pick with the Lord..."sinners" seemed to fall at His feet.

 

[Apostle390]

this really surprises me...of the times i've seen her show, she always seemed to speak of God in a "christian" manner...i guess that was just my own deception...i feel sorry for her ignorance

 

[TreeOfLife]

You might be right there...the Pharisees had quite a bone to pick with the Lord..."sinners" seemed to fall at His feet.

Yup. I got first hand experience at that falling at His feet thing!

 

[BarbB]

Sad as this may sound, I have found that sometimes "good" people's "goodness" is a bigger obstacle to them accepting Christ than "bad" people's "badness".

In fact, I'm positive it's easier for the jerks.

(Thank God for that! )

I agree that it's easier for the jerks, TOL. At least when I finally saw that I NEEDED a savior, I didn't hesitate. My best girlfriend for 54 years is a genuinely nice person who would give anybody her last bit of food or clothing, spends all her time taking care of those she loves. I think she just can't believe that she's bad enough to need Jesus.

 

[TreeOfLife]

I agree that it's easier for the jerks, TOL. At least when I finally saw that I NEEDED a savior, I didn't hesitate. My best girlfriend for 54 years is a genuinely nice person who would give anybody her last bit of food or clothing, spends all her time taking care of those she loves. I think she just can't believe that she's bad enough to need Jesus.

Not to get too syrupy, but that was heart wrenching to read. How does one who is truely kind accept the notion that they are not good enough? Only God can do that.

1 Cor 1:26-30
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
NKJV

 

[BarbB]

Not to get too syrupy, but that was heart wrenching to read. How does one who is truely kind accept the notion that they are not good enough? Only God can do that.

...

Thank you, TOL. It's breaking my heart and hurting our relationship in addition. I don't try to witness anymore - she can see what's happened with me. She knows that I know that I'm going to heaven. I've explained that no one is "good enough" to go to heaven; they must be covered by Jesus. She, in the past 2 years, has lost her beloved brother (he was 59) and her ex-boyfriend whom she still loved (he was 45 ). I believe that she's not as sure where they are as I am about my husband and parents, if you know what I mean.

In the meantime, all I can do is pray to God that someone witness to her in a meaningful way and that God keep her on this earth until she submits to his love! Her name is Dorothy, if you can add her to your prayer list. I love her to pieces - we've known eachother since kindergarten!

 

[TreeOfLife]

Not to worry. God is big enough, and when He witnesses, the universe sits in silence to listen.

 

[Mark2010]

I have often wondered about this. What conclusion are we to make of someone, raised in a foerign land in a different cultural setting, who has been taught from birth that Islam, or Hinduism, or something else is true, and has no reason to question that. They are devout in their beliefs, live a good moral life and do basically the same things Christians do. Yet, to that person, Christianity sounds as fake as we might view the religion of their land.

Are we to conclude that God doesn't accept them because they were born with a cultural bias other than Christian?

 

[KleinerApfel]

Mark I do understand your concern, and it's an indicator of the love of God working through you because you care about the lost.

I don't believe they are at any greater disadvantage than anyone else. We do all have an equal opportunity to seek and be found by the true and living God.
I'll explain.

I was brought up that "going to church" was the right thing to do, yet I was rarely taken except for "special occasions," and was told Bible stories as a child, at home and at school.
Interpretations were put upon them, I was fed reasons to not believe them, I was afraid of God, I doubted His very existence. (Funny thing that - we can fear what we don't think is there! )

I saw that religion didn't work for most people I met who went to church, and found other spiritual paths more interesting.

Most people my age in Britain would probably be in this situation, and anyone a bit younger would not even have had much Bible fed to them, since fewer parents now attend church and fewer schools have even a nominally Christian assembly.
I would guess even the very few Brits, (maybe 5% or so - anyone got a statistic?), who have saved parents might still be immersed so deeply in our anti-Christ culture that they'd struggle.
I am astounded anyone makes it at all, but God is so longing to reach all.

He reached me, and it took many, many years for Him to break through my unbelief, fear and religiosity. I am a very slow learner, but He is patient.
Finally I saw that Jesus is God, prayed to Him to rescue me, called myself a Chrstian, but still it was several years before I grasped that I had sinned!
I knew I was " a sinner" but had zero comprehension of my own personal sin. I still thought I wasn't that bad a person!

I prayed for forgiveness without being specific, and didn't face some things until about 5 years after that first prayer. Always knew something was missing, but as I said, I can be slow.

A Muslim or Hindu might even have a little head start over the atheist or the "church-goer" since they at least acknowledge spiritual possibilities.
They may have an awareness of the disatisfaction and limitations their religion, laws and restraints leave them with, and long for reality - the greatest thing Christians have is forgiveness, and they simply cannot find that in their faiths.

In the end, when we all see the full story, nobody on Judgement Day will think God is unjust, and that truth will be acknowledged by all atheists, false faith followers, and religious church-goers who never longed for Jesus Himself but were content with their observance.

God bless, love Sue

 

[Mark2010]

Mark I do understand your concern, and it's an indicator of the love of God working through you because you care about the lost.

I don't believe they are at any greater disadvantage than anyone else. We do all have an equal opportunity to seek and be found by the true and living God.
I'll explain.

I was brought up that "going to church" was the right thing to do, yet I was rarely taken except for "special occasions," and was told Bible stories as a child, at home and at school.
Interpretations were put upon them, I was fed reasons to not believe them, I was afraid of God, I doubted His very existence. (Funny thing that - we can fear what we don't think is there! )

I saw that religion didn't work for most people I met who went to church, and found other spiritual paths more interesting.

Most people my age in Britain would probably be in this situation, and anyone a bit younger would not even have had much Bible fed to them, since fewer parents now attend church and fewer schools have even a nominally Christian assembly.
I would guess even the very few Brits, (maybe 5% or so - anyone got a statistic?), who have saved parents might still be immersed so deeply in our anti-Christ culture that they'd struggle.
I am astounded anyone makes it at all, but God is so longing to reach all.

He reached me, and it took many, many years for Him to break through my unbelief, fear and religiosity. I am a very slow learner, but He is patient.
Finally I saw that Jesus is God, prayed to Him to rescue me, called myself a Chrstian, but still it was several years before I grasped that I had sinned!
I knew I was " a sinner" but had zero comprehension of my own personal sin. I still thought I wasn't that bad a person!

I prayed for forgiveness without being specific, and didn't face some things until about 5 years after that first prayer. Always knew something was missing, but as I said, I can be slow.

A Muslim or Hindu might even have a little head start over the atheist or the "church-goer" since they at least acknowledge spiritual possibilities.
They may have an awareness of the disatisfaction and limitations their religion, laws and restraints leave them with, and long for reality - the greatest thing Christians have is forgiveness, and they simply cannot find that in their faiths.

In the end, when we all see the full story, nobody on Judgement Day will think God is unjust, and that truth will be acknowledged by all atheists, false faith followers, and religious church-goers who never longed for Jesus Himself but were content with their observance.

God bless, love Sue

Sue,

First, I never would suspect you as that bad a person. Far from it!!

Second --- and I am no one's expert here --- but I find it hard to imagine Britain as an anti-Christ culture. Perhaps it doesn't hold the same evangelical fare of John Wesley's days or whatever, but are residents not free to worship as their conscious sees fit without fear of government persecution? If so, that can certainly not be compared to places in the middle east, Africa, China and other parts of the globe where confessing Christianity can lead to death.

I think most of western culture -- and I would include places like Australia, New Zealand, all of Europe and North and South America --- is far different than other parts of the world. And I think those of us raised in this culture tend to underestimate its influence on us.

Can a muslim living in Afghanistan become Christian? Sure, as the recent headlines have reminded us. Is it likely to happen in large numbers? Probably not. Are the chances greater that someone raised in England or Canada or the United States or Australia will be Christian? I would suspect they are. And this is not even touching upon those isolated corners of the world, where modern technologies and communications have yet to be realized, where persons may truly have never heard of Jesus or his story.

I honestly don't know the answer. Perhaps there are multiple roads leading to the same destination. I know what I believe, but am not so arrogant as to proclaim superiority over the rest of humanity. How then does one balance the belief that God loves the entire world with the belief that Christianity is the only path that leads to God and to eternal life?

 

[TreeOfLife]

Sue,

First, I never would suspect you as that bad a person. Far from it!!

Second --- and I am no one's expert here --- but I find it hard to imagine Britain as an anti-Christ culture. Perhaps it doesn't hold the same evangelical fare of John Wesley's days or whatever, but are residents not free to worship as their conscious sees fit without fear of government persecution? If so, that can certainly not be compared to places in the middle east, Africa, China and other parts of the globe where confessing Christianity can lead to death.

I think most of western culture -- and I would include places like Australia, New Zealand, all of Europe and North and South America --- is far different than other parts of the world. And I think those of us raised in this culture tend to underestimate its influence on us.

Can a muslim living in Afghanistan become Christian? Sure, as the recent headlines have reminded us. Is it likely to happen in large numbers? Probably not. Are the chances greater that someone raised in England or Canada or the United States or Australia will be Christian? I would suspect they are. And this is not even touching upon those isolated corners of the world, where modern technologies and communications have yet to be realized, where persons may truly have never heard of Jesus or his story.

I honestly don't know the answer. Perhaps there are multiple roads leading to the same destination. I know what I believe, but am not so arrogant as to proclaim superiority over the rest of humanity. How then does one balance the belief that God loves the entire world with the belief that Christianity is the only path that leads to God and to eternal life?

So then you yourself are a Christian because you were born into it? That seems to be what you are saying.

 

[lismore]

I have often wondered about this. What conclusion are we to make of someone, raised in a foerign land in a different cultural setting, who has been taught from birth that Islam, or Hinduism, or something else is true, and has no reason to question that. They are devout in their beliefs, live a good moral life and do basically the same things Christians do. Yet, to that person, Christianity sounds as fake as we might view the religion of their land.

Are we to conclude that God doesn't accept them because they were born with a cultural bias other than Christian?

Theres a Christian witness in almost every country. You'd be surprised. There are more Christians in Muslim Egypt than Christian England. There are more Christians in Istanbul than London! There are more Christians in Communist China than in America! There are more believers in Baghdad than my home city!

What does God say? He is close to all of us and if you reach out you will find him. How much easier could it be?

Acts 17
26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Acts 2:21
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.' [ Joel 2:28-32]

In my experience what makes devout muslims and Hindus question their tradition is that their belief brings no peace of fulfillment. They have no concept of forgiveness, no assurance of salvation and no eternal security. Only we do because He is our peace!

Psalm 29:11 NIV
The LORD gives strength to his people; the LORD blesses his people with peace.

Peace that passes all understanding that a muslim or Hindua does not have.

 

[Mark2010]

So then you yourself are a Christian because you were born into it? That seems to be what you are saying.

I think the odds increased tremendously because of where I lived and the culture around me. When I was going through my own spiritual search a number of yers ago, I could see that being a Christian had a lot to offer. Sure, the choice was mine, but no one was waiting to kill me when I made that choice.

I am not saying that people from other cultures and lands do not become Christian. There is ample evidence that they do. Many pay a severe price for their choice.

The original topic was Oprah's statement that there can be more than one way to God. I am simply raising the question of how God views things in light of our built-in cultural biases. It is a question for which I do not claim to have an answer.

 

[TreeOfLife]

I think the odds increased tremendously because of where I lived and the culture around me. When I was going through my own spiritual search a number of yers ago, I could see that being a Christian had a lot to offer. Sure, the choice was mine, but no one was waiting to kill me when I made that choice.

I am not saying that people from other cultures and lands do not become Christian. There is ample evidence that they do. Many pay a severe price for their choice.

The original topic was Oprah's statement that there can be more than one way to God. I am simply raising the question of how God views things in light of our built-in cultural biases. It is a question for which I do not claim to have an answer.

Religion does not equal salvation. Neither christian religion, nor muslim religion.

 

[lismore]

Religion does not equal salvation. Neither christian religion, nor muslim religion.

Thats true. No-one can see the Kingdom of God unless he/she is born again.

Abraham was living in Ur but God called him. Today God calls and those who listen and call back and are saved. Every muslim who calls to the Lord will receive a revealation of who God is. Today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts!

God is omnipresent, he is not far from any of us. So it does not matter which wierd religion anyone was brought up in. God is bigger than religion.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Perhaps there are multiple roads leading to the same destination. I know what I believe, but am not so arrogant as to proclaim superiority over the rest of humanity. How then does one balance the belief that God loves the entire world with the belief that Christianity is the only path that leads to God and to eternal life?

I have to disagree with you dear Mark - this is not arrogance or a claim of superiority, far from it!

I know the truth that sets me free, I know there is no other way I could have been saved, I know that to throw myself at the feet of Jesus in humility meant I was lifted up into His presence when I didn't deserve it, I could never have earned this in a million lifetimes.
(In fact praise God one life is all I get, or I'd have sinned even more! )

I am in no way claiming to be superior to any Hindu, Atheist, Satanist.....
I am no better, in fact I fully recognise that among them there are better people than I, for all I know every one of them could be judged better than I if we were judged according to our human moral state.

In my life I have broken every one of the 10 commandments bar one, and that I have avoided only by grace. In fact, if we add to it the explanation of Jesus that hate in the heart is murder, I have ticked all the boxes anyway. I was an object of wrath, but now I am His beloved. Awesome!

I am covered by the blood of Jesus, therefore here I am, standing, clean.
And although you are very sweet to say you can't see me as a bad person, you are wrong. You don't see my failings, but my Lord knows me through and through, yet doesn't condemn me.

There is no other way, or Jesus would have told us.
Take a moment to seek His lovely, lovely face, and try to tell Him that you think "good" people should go to Heaven and He need not have died for them.
I know that you can't, because in your heart you know the truth.

Dear Mark, trust what you have received, let yourself be swept away by it, it is so much more than you ever dreamed, but you are holding something back and it's stealing your peace.

God bless you, love Sue

 

[lismore]

The original topic was Oprah's statement that there can be more than one way to God. I am simply raising the question of how God views things in light of our built-in cultural biases. It is a question for which I do not claim to have an answer.

Hi mark

Do you trust God's answer?

John 14:6 NIV
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 3:36 NIV
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 6:40 NIV
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Deuteronomy 4:39 NIV
Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.

Isaiah 45:22 NIV
"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

Matthew 7:13 NIV
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Acts 4:12 NIV
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

 

[womanofgodwcci]

womanofgodwcci....if you want to arrange it to where you're getting on an elevator alone with Oprah...I'll cut the power and you can just clang on the doors with your shoe when God's done using you. Bless her heart. All that money and she doesn't even know how poor she really is.

Sounds like a plan to me Hisgirl

 

[Mark2010]

I have no doubt that Jesus saves. I simply stated that I could not emphatically tell someone of a different faith or culture that they are damned unless they believe the way that I do.