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Julyshemustfly: My friend who has a just 8 yr old and just 7 yr old twins says that it all gets totally different for the best once they turn 7. So sorry, you got a bit longer to wait, but it really does get better!
Bananacake: your original question was, "what do you do if they are just downright rebellious?" and I'm not sure we've really tackled that for you yet. There was some stuff on defiance on pages 7 and 8 of this thread, but here's my attempt at a more practical answer. Not saying I can do this, but here is how I understand the theory...
Non-punitive (NP), gentle, grace-based discipline (whatever you want to call it) is about having a long term game plan. It tries to be proactive as much as possible, and avoid the reactive parenting that often results in the need for punishment. I guess to some extent it depends on the character and age of the child(ren) in question, but the starting point as I see it is to ask what is causing the defiance. Often the causes are:
1. low blood sugar
2. tiredness
3. needing reassurance
4. changes happening too quickly (e.g. from one activity to another)
5. anger displaced from an unrelated incident, trying to get back at you, feel more powerful etc. (which typically arises with very punitive styles of parenting - so the defiance-punishment cycle is a vicious one)
NP practices are NOT about kids running the home, doing what they want, and running rings around parents that are 'soft'. You are always in control, using your God-given authority over your children. And boundaries are vital to that. Some things just have to be done / happen; some behaviors just are inappropriate.
As a high school teacher (who has to have full authority in the classroom at all times) I can tell you that getting locked into a battle of wills with a child is a hopeless cause. They will always go further than you, because they have less to lose. As parents it is all too easy to 'get into the arena' with our kids (you WILL do this because I say so, response: NO, make me!) and in the end we can enforce our will because we are more powerful, can impose punishments etc. But what the kids have learned on a profound level is that might is right and they are no better equipped to handle their own emotions or make the right choices independently.
Putting all of that together, what do I (ideally) do about open defiance?
1. Take a step backwards from the situation
2. Mentally check their food and sleep status - if these are depleted, getting mad will achieve nothing, a box of raisins and a glass of water might.
3. Give them a hug and explain why I am asking them to do that (again)
4. If the answer is still no, ask them to explain why they object (learning to verbalize) and then talk it through with them. For example, often they just want to finish what they were doing before they are ready to move on
5. We reach a solution in which I get my way, but in a manner which is acceptable to us both.
Defiance is rare if you have taken the time to prepare them for what is happening (e.g. when this book is finished we're going to brush our teeth, ok?) and can often be diffused by not allowing it to become a power struggle.
If you don't feel comfortable with that, you might like Ross Campbell's recommendation (How to Really parent your Child) for how to get things done. If the first step doesn't do it, move to the next one and so on:
1. Politely request that the child does whatever you want them to do (or stops doing what you don't want them to do)
2. Command your child to do it / stop
3. Gentle physical manipulation (moving them away or whatever)
4. Punishment - which has to be age, child, and "crime" appropriate.
Technically that of course is not NP, but if full-on NP seems to, well, full-on, maybe that could work for you?
Sorry this has been such a looooooooooooong post! Hope at least some of it has been helpful.
Wish I could rep you for that.Julyshemustfly: My friend who has a just 8 yr old and just 7 yr old twins says that it all gets totally different for the best once they turn 7. So sorry, you got a bit longer to wait, but it really does get better!
Bananacake: your original question was, "what do you do if they are just downright rebellious?" and I'm not sure we've really tackled that for you yet. There was some stuff on defiance on pages 7 and 8 of this thread, but here's my attempt at a more practical answer. Not saying I can do this, but here is how I understand the theory...
Non-punitive (NP), gentle, grace-based discipline (whatever you want to call it) is about having a long term game plan. It tries to be proactive as much as possible, and avoid the reactive parenting that often results in the need for punishment. I guess to some extent it depends on the character and age of the child(ren) in question, but the starting point as I see it is to ask what is causing the defiance. Often the causes are:
1. low blood sugar
2. tiredness
3. needing reassurance
4. changes happening too quickly (e.g. from one activity to another)
5. anger displaced from an unrelated incident, trying to get back at you, feel more powerful etc. (which typically arises with very punitive styles of parenting - so the defiance-punishment cycle is a vicious one)
NP practices are NOT about kids running the home, doing what they want, and running rings around parents that are 'soft'. You are always in control, using your God-given authority over your children. And boundaries are vital to that. Some things just have to be done / happen; some behaviors just are inappropriate.
As a high school teacher (who has to have full authority in the classroom at all times) I can tell you that getting locked into a battle of wills with a child is a hopeless cause. They will always go further than you, because they have less to lose. As parents it is all too easy to 'get into the arena' with our kids (you WILL do this because I say so, response: NO, make me!) and in the end we can enforce our will because we are more powerful, can impose punishments etc. But what the kids have learned on a profound level is that might is right and they are no better equipped to handle their own emotions or make the right choices independently.
Putting all of that together, what do I (ideally) do about open defiance?
1. Take a step backwards from the situation
2. Mentally check their food and sleep status - if these are depleted, getting mad will achieve nothing, a box of raisins and a glass of water might.
3. Give them a hug and explain why I am asking them to do that (again)
4. If the answer is still no, ask them to explain why they object (learning to verbalize) and then talk it through with them. For example, often they just want to finish what they were doing before they are ready to move on
5. We reach a solution in which I get my way, but in a manner which is acceptable to us both.
Defiance is rare if you have taken the time to prepare them for what is happening (e.g. when this book is finished we're going to brush our teeth, ok?) and can often be diffused by not allowing it to become a power struggle.
If you don't feel comfortable with that, you might like Ross Campbell's recommendation (How to Really parent your Child) for how to get things done. If the first step doesn't do it, move to the next one and so on:
1. Politely request that the child does whatever you want them to do (or stops doing what you don't want them to do)
2. Command your child to do it / stop
3. Gentle physical manipulation (moving them away or whatever)
4. Punishment - which has to be age, child, and "crime" appropriate.
Technically that of course is not NP, but if full-on NP seems to, well, full-on, maybe that could work for you?
Sorry this has been such a looooooooooooong post! Hope at least some of it has been helpful.
Bananacake: your original question was, "what do you do if they are just downright rebellious?" and I'm not sure we've really tackled that for you yet. There was some stuff on defiance on pages 7 and 8 of this thread, but here's my attempt at a more practical answer. Not saying I can do this, but here is how I understand the theory...
My rep was so embarrassingly low that my ego dictated I remove it from my thing!
My rep was so embarrassingly low that my ego dictated I remove it from my thing!
Thanks! I finally got my film developed. Maybe Santa will bring me a digital camera this yearRose: love the new avatar! Good enough to eat!
OK, new question:
Whenever I try new things (and I don't mean scary stuff) meals become quite unpleasant (they already start with, "I don't want that much" "I don't like that" "I'm not eating that" and similar rudeness and negativity).
I could go on, but instead I'll just ask:
1. What are your kids' favorite recipes?
2. How do you get them to eat a wide variety of foods?
3. How do you keep mealtimes pleasant?
4. From what ages and in what ways have you trained in table manners? (In fairness to my kids, they are actually fairly polite, and stay seated and so on, I'm just curious)
5. Any other thoughts, ideas, experiences, funny stories?
I grew up eating breakfast and supper as a family and it is really important to me that I continue that. I want our children to enjoy their mealtimes as family times, but it all seems a bit of an ordeal at the moment.
I grew up with this rule too--when I was about 5 I went through a picky phase. My mom handled it exactly how you are describing and once I grew out of it, I loved my veggiesWow, OK well with food issues we are fairly strict, only because ds 5 will pick and choose what to eat and never eat any veggies, so we have a rule. You have to clean your plate to get seconds of ANYTHING. So, when we serve food, we put a bite or two of meat and a small serving of veggies, then a bite or two of any bread or potatoes that we are having. This way, he has to eat his small serving of veggies before getting any more of the stuff he likes.
Now, this has ended in fits before, but they are short lived because it is just the rule of the house, and no amount of throwing fits is going to change the rule.
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