Open relationships.

[cantata]

I can't speak for every poly person, but for me, it's not about needing more than one person to be satisfied, but about simply experiencing feelings of closeness, affection, intimacy, love, trust, and desire for more than one person. It's not as if I think to myself, "I'm not having enough sex - I shall go out and find someone to have sex with." There's not some quota of sex that I feel isn't fulfilled by one person. I simply don't see good reasons to limit my intimate and loving relationships with others who feel the same way, except for circumstantial reasons (if they have a partner who is not comfortable with it, for example). Those relationships can bring so much joy.

 

[Fin12]

Firstly my view is that in terms of sexuality men in particular thrive on variety in the bedroom. Example if "playboy" or "nuts" magazine had the same cover girl every issue, their sales would plumet.

Secondly I agree with some of the above posters, for me marriage is sacred and should only be between two people, I think getting engaged should be like an official contract of commitment.

But I don't know where all these people are talking about higher divorce rates and kids becoming warped.

The whole idea of an open relationship is low pressure, low commitment, if you're going to raise kids why on earth would you do that in an open relationship.


Yes society used to be towards close exclusiveness, but I feel hee in the uk things are opening up a bit, society changes and naturally so will the natue of our relationships.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[cantata]

Firstly my view is that in terms of sexuality men in particular thrive on variety in the bedroom. Example if "playboy" or "nuts" magazine had the same cover girl every issue, their sales would plumet.

You are not doing yourself any favours.

Firstly, you hugely underestimate women's sexuality and needs.

Secondly, you are painting men as... well, pretty unpleasant, actually. If open relationships are to be conducted in a healthy and positive way, people must not be made to feel discarded like last week's issue of Nuts magazine. That is not how to be an ethical s!ut. You will not win many people over if you paint open relationships as nothing but a free pass to stick your manparts wherever you feel like it.

Secondly I agree with some of the above posters, for me marriage is sacred and should only be between two people, I think getting engaged should be like an official contract of commitment.

I'm not sure why commitment = sexual exclusivity, but you're entitled to your view, of course.

But I don't know where all these people are talking about higher divorce rates and kids becoming warped.

The whole idea of an open relationship is low pressure, low commitment, if you're going to raise kids why on earth would you do that in an open relationship.

Not for all of us. For some of us, open relationships are highly committed. Please don't speak for everyone. And for some people, children do come into that equation, and it can work out well for everyone involved.

Yes society used to be towards close exclusiveness, but I feel hee in the uk things are opening up a bit, society changes and naturally so will the natue of our relationships.

Just my 2 cents.

Yes, this is probably true, and it's mostly a good thing. But be careful that you remember to treat people as ends, not solely means.

 

[Fin12]

1. OK women do want variety, however naturally in most men the need to move around IS stronger. In evoloutionary terms the female sticks to the male in order to ensure that the kids are brought up with their father, who will teach hunting/sheltering/*insert macho action * Thus one of the reasons the female selects her mate on 70% survival rating and 30% health. WHere as men are more concerned about the women in terms of 80% health and 20% survival rating.

2. I'm not talking about discarding, I'm saying that certain people may find the same person over and over sexually boring (if that is one of the main pillars of the relationship)

3. I keep myself and others aware that some relationships I am in are driven sexually, I'm not going to blame myself if people can't keep responsibiltiy for their own feelings, if they have this idea that from the first time we meet my intentions are to find a house with a white picket fence and.... you get the picture. It's my responsibility in the realtionship, to comfort them and interact and have fun, develope a connection, not too live up too their hopes and dreams. I am what I am, people of this world who have high sexual value say no more than they say yes. Female supermodels are desired by men all over the world, but the supermodels choose to say no.

4. I've always felt wierd about raising kids or getting married with multiple people, it doesn't feel right to me, but I guess everyone has their own choices too make. For me commitment means to put you're undivided attention on one person and ensure that you make them as happy as possible.

 

[cantata]

1. OK women do want variety, however naturally in most men the need to move around IS stronger. In evoloutionary terms the female clings to the male in order to ensure that the kids are brought up with their father, who will teach hunting/sheltering/*insert macho action *

Well firstly, just because something is some way because of biology doesn't mean that it should be that way.

Secondly, if you're going to talk in biological terms, you can scrap open relationships right away. Biology favours approximately seven-year monogamy. Biologically speaking, it's a good idea for women to be able to rely on their partners' fidelity (so that their resources are not divided between several sets of offspring), and it's good for men to be able to rely on theirs (so that they can be sure of not raising someone else's offspring). That means mutual fidelity is a good idea, from the point of view of evolution. There are strong biological drives behind the feeling of sexual jealousy.

It's less of an issue now that family planning is possible and desirable, which is why open relationships are acceptable. Having a happy open relationship is all about rising above your biology. If you are to leave your sexual jealousy at the door, you must leave your gender stereotyping there too.

I can tell you now: there are plenty of women inclined to have lots of sex with lots of different people. Do not use your biology as an excuse.

2. I'm not talking about discarding, I'm saying that certain people may find the same person over and over sexually boring (if that is one of the main pillars of the relationship)

They may, but while that's their business, I'd suggest that such an attitude is not a particularly mature one.

3. I keep myself and others aware that some relationships I am in are driven sexually, I'm not going to blame myself if people can't keep responsibiltiy for their own feelings, if they have this idea that from the first time we meet my intentions are to find a house with a white picket fence and.... you get the picture. It's my responsibility in the realtionship, to comfort them and interact and have fun, develope a connection, not too live up too their hopes and dreams. I am what I am, people of this world who have high sexual value say no more than they say yes. Female supermodels are desired by men all over the world, but the supermodels choose to say no.

I'm not sure what the latter part of this paragraph is about.

What I will say is that yes, it is your responsibility to be a good partner, and that means that you must be honest, responsible, and caring. You can, of course, have sex with whomever you choose, as long as everyone's happy about that, but you have a responsibility, as we all do, to respect others' feelings and remember that sex does make people feel things. It is an emotional experience for many people. And if you decide to have sex with someone, you have to accept that you may well inspire some feelings in them.

I do not like the cold individualism that I see at the centre of your post here. You will just punch the air, and if anyone gets in the way of your fist, that's their fault! People's feelings are fragile. Many people's neuroses revolve around sex. You need to keep in mind that people sometimes do things for the wrong reasons, including getting involved in sexual interactions. It's important to take care to ensure that the people you have sex with will not be hurt by the experience, and give them enough of your time and affection to ensure that they do not feel used or discarded.

I'd also add that I hope you find that the sexual encounters you get the most out of are the ones where you are not simply using the other person as a tool for masturbation, but where you are interested in their pleasure and you really want to make them feel good.

4. I've always felt wierd about raising kids or getting married with multiple people, it doesn't feel right to me, but I guess everyone has their own choices too make. For me commitment means to put you're undivided attention on one person and ensure that you make them as happy as possible.

I think that, for me, I will always be happiest knowing that my partner can see other people. So being in an open relationship is, for me, part of making my partner and myself as happy as possible.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Firstly my view is that in terms of sexuality men in particular thrive on variety in the bedroom. Example if "playboy" or "nuts" magazine had the same cover girl every issue, their sales would plumet.

Secondly I agree with some of the above posters, for me marriage is sacred and should only be between two people, I think getting engaged should be like an official contract of commitment.

But I don't know where all these people are talking about higher divorce rates and kids becoming warped.

The whole idea of an open relationship is low pressure, low commitment, if you're going to raise kids why on earth would you do that in an open relationship.


Yes society used to be towards close exclusiveness, but I feel hee in the uk things are opening up a bit, society changes and naturally so will the natue of our relationships.

Just my 2 cents.

The men "needing variety" garbage is propaganda about 5 centuries old and it reduces men to animals while trying to segregate women into a different class of humans which offers justification for men's infidelity but criminalizes womens.'

The reason mag sales would plummet is the same reason movie sales would plummet if the same movie was shown in all theaters. It's not about biology but people (men and women) wanting to see something new because mags are a side gig, entertainment like movies.

Women are just as horny as men and both are equally responsible.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

People are meant to be married and meant to be exclusive. And kids are meant to know their fathers, and kids are meant to be raised by a family. Naturally, every society has drifted towards exclusivity in relationships.

Adults do not sleep with each others spouses in healthy societies because it disrupts families, ruins kids perspectives on marriage and loyalty.

People live much unhappier lives with higher divorce rates, etc. People want close relationships with their families...

I do not really know, but I do know that I would feel hurt to want to be with a woman so much and be in a relationship that resulted in her sleeping with other men.

I was cheated on recently and it was a painful experience because I did not want to be with anyone else. It's pretty simple equation. If you truly love someone you do not need anyone else.

I don't what people are meant to be and from what I've read regarding anthropology, not all cultures view child rearing in the same light. Several factors come into play but in our western culture, given the divorce rates, single parent homes, and couples that are still "married" but obviously living separate lives, I don't think the nuclear family is necessary. All that matters is honesty. I can empathize with the unfaithful you just experienced and for me it was a bitter blessing. It revealed her character which saved me a lot of time, and while it hurt like hell, throughout I realized her pain would be much worse and prayed for healing from both ends. The guy she cheated on me with ended up cheating on her. (What goes around comes around)

For open relationships, it's not about sex, but rather emotional security. Of course this isn't true for every single person but generally, open relationships provide a never ending stream of lily pads so one can always safely view a path to the shore. Monogamous relationships reveal our best and ¤worst¤ qualities. We either work on them with our partners or pretend the character defects do not exist and the relationship dissolves in any number of forms. All honest relationships are like Soul mirrors but the intimacy in a monogamous one takes it to a new level so some people want to avoid that by being in open relationships. It basically means a committment is there when both are in the same room together. Open relationships are an easy way out of scary leaps of faith.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Well firstly, just because something is some way because of biology doesn't mean that it should be that way.

Secondly, if you're going to talk in biological terms, you can scrap open relationships right away. Biology favours approximately seven-year monogamy. Biologically speaking, it's a good idea for women to be able to rely on their partners' fidelity (so that their resources are not divided between several sets of offspring), and it's good for men to be able to rely on theirs (so that they can be sure of not raising someone else's offspring). That means mutual fidelity is a good idea, from the point of view of evolution. There are strong biological drives behind the feeling of sexual jealousy.

It's less of an issue now that family planning is possible and desirable, which is why open relationships are acceptable. Having a happy open relationship is all about rising above your biology. If you are to leave your sexual jealousy at the door, you must leave your gender stereotyping there too.

I can tell you now: there are plenty of women inclined to have lots of sex with lots of different people. Do not use your biology as an excuse.



They may, but while that's their business, I'd suggest that such an attitude is not a particularly mature one.



I'm not sure what the latter part of this paragraph is about.

What I will say is that yes, it is your responsibility to be a good partner, and that means that you must be honest, responsible, and caring. You can, of course, have sex with whomever you choose, as long as everyone's happy about that, but you have a responsibility, as we all do, to respect others' feelings and remember that sex does make people feel things. It is an emotional experience for many people. And if you decide to have sex with someone, you have to accept that you may well inspire some feelings in them.

I do not like the cold individualism that I see at the centre of your post here. You will just punch the air, and if anyone gets in the way of your fist, that's their fault! People's feelings are fragile. Many people's neuroses revolve around sex. You need to keep in mind that people sometimes do things for the wrong reasons, including getting involved in sexual interactions. It's important to take care to ensure that the people you have sex with will not be hurt by the experience, and give them enough of your time and affection to ensure that they do not feel used or discarded.

I'd also add that I hope you find that the sexual encounters you get the most out of are the ones where you are not simply using the other person as a tool for masturbation, but where you are interested in their pleasure and you really want to make them feel good.



I think that, for me, I will always be happiest knowing that my partner can see other people. So being in an open relationship is, for me, part of making my partner and myself as happy as possible.

That's the crux of the matter on open relationships: honesty. Some people are secure in themselves and so desire an OR. Others pretend to be secure and see OR as a way of creating a self-woven illusion of being protected from being hurt. It's all about knowing ourselves as truly as possible.

The "friends with benefits" culture grew out of an environment of distrust and even in OR trust and honesty are still important. If people are on the same plane in their lives there isn't anything bad about OR.

In monogamous relationships a problem is too often people will say "I love you" when all they really mean is "I love the way you make me feel." Those are not the same sentiments. As for God and sex, God doesn't care about sex in the way some moral hubbub groups do, God only cares about how we engage in sexual activities. Did we lie to get some? Do we have an unfriendly resident in the groin area we should be telling partners about? Is birth control really being used? Etc etc

 

[Fin12]

The men "needing variety" garbage is propaganda about 5 centuries old and it reduces men to animals while trying to segregate women into a different class of humans which offers justification for men's infidelity but criminalizes womens.'

The reason mag sales would plummet is the same reason movie sales would plummet if the same movie was shown in all theaters. It's not about biology but people (men and women) wanting to see something new because mags are a side gig, entertainment like movies.

Women are just as horny as men and both are equally responsible.

1. It's not propaganda it's biology men like to move around. This however has been warped by modern society to be a bad thing.

2. Some people never grow bored of thriller films.

3. "women are just as horny as men" I agree, womens sexual desires have been quashed and repressed by the media and pop culture.

I'm just trying to press that open relationships are natural as well as long term monogamy.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

1. It's not propaganda it's biology men like to move around. This however has been warped by modern society to be a bad thing.

2. Some people never grow bored of thriller films.

3. "women are just as horny as men" I agree, womens sexual desires have been quashed and repressed by the media and pop culture.

I'm just trying to press that open relationships are natural as well as long term monogamy.

What is the biological evidence men like to move around? If it were biological it would be true for all men but not all men desire to move around. What is the model used to distinguish between environment and what is supposedly natural? As far as "natural," not sure how that comes into play. Nature itself is extremely difficult to define so my pov is not knowing what is or isn't natural within relationships. People do what they want then justify it later.

 

[ACougar]

They may be natural in some other cultures and societies, however in our own I don't think thier natural. Men especially are culturaly programed to feel a sense of ownership with regard to their wives. Overcomming that programing is no small task, and that's just the first major hurdle.

I'm just trying to press that open relationships are natural as well as long term monogamy.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

They may be natural in some other cultures and societies, however in our own I don't think thier natural. Men especially are culturaly programed to feel a sense of ownership with regard to their wives. Overcomming that programing is no small task, and that's just the first major hurdle.

Very very astute observation. This ownership tag dates back over 4,000 years. Look at Deut. where it states if a man sleeps with (some translations say rape, seize, lay hold of) a virgin prior to being married that she is forced to marry him and he must pay her father a fixed price. This tradition is very much alive today as men still ask the father to "take" his daughter's hand in marriage. If approved, the father walks the woman down the aisle to "give" her away to be married. It is metaphorically and literally a transaction of ownership. She gets taken by the hand from one man (her father) to be given to the hand of another man (her husband.) A related tag of ownership is the engagement ring. She doesn't wear it for herself, but for her fiance as it's a symbol to other men she is "spoken" for.

Additionally, the gender tag of ownership is extended beyond women to objects. Ships, boats, cars, and motorcycles are often referred to as "she." Patriarchal structures train men to view everything in ownership as female designated. It also trains women their role is to be owned.

 

[cantata]

It is pop psychobiology to claim that men are "supposed" to sleep around. The reality is far more complicated than that. That monogamy, or closed polygamy, has been the standard institution for most of history suggests that there are strong social and biological drives in that direction.

All of which is why it must be accepted that engaging in open relationships is about rising above biology and social programming, not submitting to them.

 

[Fin12]

closed polygamy

Sorry I have no idea what is meant by that

 

[cantata]

Sorry I have no idea what is meant by that

It's when someone has several spouses but does not have relationships outside that marriage.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

It is pop psychobiology to claim that men are "supposed" to sleep around. The reality is far more complicated than that. That monogamy, or closed polygamy, has been the standard institution for most of history suggests that there are strong social and biological drives in that direction.

All of which is why it must be accepted that engaging in open relationships is about rising above biology and social programming, not submitting to them.

Why is OR about rising above biology and programming? Isn't that making the same mistake as the claim that men are biologically driven [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]?

 

[cantata]

Why is OR about rising above biology and programming? Isn't that making the same mistake as the claim that men are biologically driven [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]?

No, I don't think so.

Everyone - men and women - have to find new ways to cope with jealousy and possessiveness if they are to function in an open relationship. I have not said that it will only be an issue for men. Both men and women will be attracted by the benefits of open relationships as well.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

No, I don't think so.

Everyone - men and women - have to find new ways to cope with jealousy and possessiveness if they are to function in an open relationship. I have not said that it will only be an issue for men. Both men and women will be attracted by the benefits of open relationships as well.

Part of my point was asking why do OR's facilitate such areas? Meaning, iam not insecure nor jealous but I prefer monogamy over polygamy. I read your post as saying OR's are necessary to combat patriarchal propaganda.

 

[cantata]

Part of my point was asking why do OR's facilitate such areas? Meaning, iam not insecure nor jealous but I prefer monogamy over polygamy. I read your post as saying OR's are necessary to combat patriarchal propaganda.

Oh! No, I didn't mean that at all. I simply meant that anyone who wants to engage in an open relationship has to recognise that biology and social influences may be against them in some ways; that is to say, it is not an easy option.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Oh! No, I didn't mean that at all. I simply meant that anyone who wants to engage in an open relationship has to recognise that biology and social influences may be against them in some ways; that is to say, it is not an easy option.

Yeah, think a lot of it comes down to knowing self. Swing clubs are about sex, then there's OR's that share intimacy as well as sex. There are many variations but at least people are pushing the freedom envelope because adults should not be restricted by the walls of hollow piety draped in bigotry on nothing but fear and ignorance.