[open] For those of us who are liberal, why?

FLANDIDLYANDERS said:

It doesnt necissarily support Biblical Innerancy, but Biblical insight, certainly.

Click to expand...

Good points though, definately valid. Conservtive on the socialogical spectrum, but very Liberal politiacaly and possibly evangelically, IMO.

Click to expand...

So yes, Lib and Con are stoopid terms that lose all meaning when you sit down and cry with a war orphan. Again, Biblically, issues such as Justice and Equality and non-judgmentalism would strictly be Conservative, but they have become Liberal within realms such as CF and Evangelicalism.

God, of course, is liberally conservative or conservatively liberal. Cos all people and situations are different we should apply ourselves appropriately, methinx.

Anywho, cheers for the thoughts Raz-Flab.

Click to expand...

Tillich said:

I am a liberal because I like to drink and smoke my pipe....

No, not really, even though there's not much in life more relaxing than a pipe full of smoking tobacco, some jazz music playing on the hi-fi, and a cup of hot coffee with a shot of frangelica and french vanilla cream....

I think I'm a liberal because I accept the hard fact that it all may not be true in the long run. Therefore, I have a deep respect for people who disagree with my understanding of truth; in fact, I long to learn from those outside the faith whose worldviews/metanarratives may differ profoundly from my inherited faith.

"Inherited faith"....just what have I maintained in spite of my philosophy degree and MA degree in literature? Well, I believe deeply in the Johannine idea that the essence of God's being is Love.....God IS Love. I deplore the past and present images of God that depict God more as a devil or monster. Just think about St. Augustine, Calvin, and Jonathan Edwards....I actually think Calvin was one of the greatest heretics Christianity has ever seen; yet, this murderer is reverenced by modern Calvinistic Baptists.

I am a liberal because I have a deep love for those liberals who affirm God's universal love for all people, theologians and thinkers like Alfred North Whitehead, Charles Hartshorne, Shubert Ogden, John Cobb, and others in the process community have done us a great service by working out a metaphysics of love that have attracted many people in our modern world, if not to the Christian faith in a liberal form, at least, to a form of theism. And they did so without denying the validity of scientific theories that have been dreamed up by excellent women and men in the scientific communities.

I am a liberal because it for me it frees the Bible from cold, rigid fundamentalisms. I now read Paul differently, yes, as a voice in and of the ancient world, but a voice loud enough to penetrate the confusions of our modern world too. I have seen in Paul's writing - reading it from a non-Augustinian/Calvinist perspective - a passion for Love Itself, a burning Love that Paul felt so intensely that he thought It would transform the whole world in his own lifetime.

I am liberal because I believe that Paul, John, and, furthermore, the Patristic Fathers are probably liberal compared to the fundamentlisms of today. It very well be the case that early Christianity DID NOT have the hell, fire, and brimstone message that later Christians feared; in fact, Augustine himself admitted that there were many Christians who believed that all would eventually be saved.

I am liberal because I believe truth must be tested in real life. In a belief system doesn't change lives and society for the better then what good is it really? The hellfire theology, the Calvinist theology, unpardonble sins, don't drink, smoke, or attend movies, evolution is of the devil theologies HAVEN'T WORKED!!!!! My sincere belief is if we view God differently, as a God of Love Who reaches out to all people at all times, seeking their reconciliation, and Who will finally win all people to Himself, then the church will change. We ourselves will want to love others when we see God as Love Itself.

I am finally a liberal because I believe that the church must think for itself today. That doesn't mean abandoning the Bible or any of the great traditions. But it does mean taking the best and the most truthful insights of the past, developing them, and working them into a theology or into many theologies for the good of the church today.

Sorry so long...I have a lot more to get off my chest....let me close by saying that I continue to believe in such orthodox teachings as the Trinity, the Incarnation of Christ,etc. I just believe that we must develop these doctrines further in such a way that it will appeal to both the modern church and today's society.

Click to expand...

razzelflabben said:

Outstanding show old chap!


...can you explain your thoughts on how this view is liberal politically and evangelically?

Click to expand...

FLANDIDLYANDERS said:

Well old bean, you'll always get a show from me.

You touched on 2 topics, the reuction of Government and giving to the poor. In my humble opinion both of these views are Biblical, therefore Biblically Conservative, but radically Liberal politically and Evangelically. I refer to those who would cal themselves "Evangelical" by denomination or whatever, rather than the Bibles term.

The notion of sharing all things, essentialy reflects both of your points. This is traditionally interpreted as a Liberal way of living -- trust me, I do it, and I'm considered Liberl because of it!

I thought this was self-evident, but perhaps there is no greater language barrier than those between the Empire and the Colonies? (Although USA seems intent on following UKs mistakes in seeking to be an Empire, based on Dollars not a Monarch?)

Cheers me old fruit.

Click to expand...

gratis said:

Liberal?
Because I believe that God is sooooo much bigger than the ultra conservative man made boxes that "churchianity" tries to place him in.

Because love and acceptance flows more freely.

Because it is easier to live free then in bondage because of trying to jump through hoops trying to stay "conservative" All that does is distract us from loving our neighbour.

Click to expand...

freyajem said:

What do you not accept about what I posted?

And I accept everyone as Jesus did.

Click to expand...

FLANDIDLYANDERS said:

Liberal in Evangelical Church terms.
Conservative under these terms would mean our current individualistic, money/success-orientated, warm-but-distant, separatist, unethical, unaware, uncaring and legalistic incarnation of what would claim to be the body of Christ in the West. IMO.

Click to expand...

Moana said:

I was explaining what I said, that's all.

Click to expand...

razzelflabben said:

Now that's an impressive string of adjectives. Got to love it, thanks I got what you are saying at least I'm pretty sure I get it. You have prompted some interesting thoughts to explore. Again thanks!

Click to expand...

Freedom&Light said:

I was originally labeled a liberal because I believe that God is the only one that knows about a person's salvation, that we don't know Everything, and yes, Virginia, God will save people who don't label themselves as Christian.

I figured if that's what a liberal was, I was better off.

Click to expand...

marli said:

I was once deeply Calvinist, and to tell the truth, if someone needed advice from a Calvinist perspective now, I could give it as freely as anyone -- the answers would simply be my parroting what other people have told me.

But really, I feel as if churches and Christian groups are so interested in evangelizing and norming that they are hardly concerned with developing the individual's relationship with God anymore. And the result makes me so sad sometimes, when my friends say in a hotheaded evangelical fervor, "Oh, I would love to go to Israel, so that we can convert the Jews!" without thinking to accept others as brothers and sisters in the Lord, but rather, as some sort of conquest.

Click to expand...

tattedsaint said:

i'm trying to understand the "idiot" part. is that to say that anyone not liberal is an idiot or doesn't think for themselves?

i'm just asking to understand...that's all.

Click to expand...