Open Brethren

[OzSpen]

OzSpen, I agree with most of the points you have made above. Whilst I agree with your comment that what occurred on the day of Pentecost was the beginning of a fulfillment of prophecy (Joel), I can think of no text that says this was the beginning of the Christian church, and therefore speaks to church practice. For the most part I agree with your comments about the ministry of women in the church. There are one or two passages which suggest that women teaching men has a wider scope than being a recommended practice for a couple of churches experiencing problems - some of the reasons given seem to indicate that this passage has a wider implication.

In connection with Brethren churches, remember that they are each autonomous and gather to Christ alone; therefore, there are many differences in the way they function individually. In some Brethren churches women are not restricted from exercising ministries at all, so please don't tar them all with the same brush. There are changes afoot.

So when do you think that the church began?

As for Brethren Churches and their ministry practice, some of my family members are in the Open Brethren, including my late parents. My sister and her husband are in the Gospel Hall (Open Brethren) currently. I know of no Brethren assemblies in my neck of the woods that allow women in public preaching/teaching ministry among men. However, you do know of some. Does this mean that these assemblies allow women to teach men in a mixed gathering?

Oz

 

[razzelflabben]

Okay, my two cents...I was non denominational most of my life, when I married, I married a long term "old" family Brethren...today, we worship and are members of a Church of the Brethren. My husband always laughs at how much Alexander Mac and I are alike in our thoughts and beliefs.

That being said, the brethren have split over and over and over and over again, so many times that it is really hard to keep up. I think that most of the core teachings seem pretty well in place, but some of the splits have left some teachings to be problematic for many of us who simply what to serve the Lord. Because of this, and because each church varies so much as to how strict they are...for example, the brethren are a peace church yet our congregation has quite a few veterans and some active military, and our response is to pray for their safety, both physical and spiritual....thus my advice, visit the church, talk to the leaders, they more than likely will have literature, talk to the people in the congregation, see how stuck they are on issues you find questionable. A year + ago, we became licensed ministers of the Church of the Brethren, both of us, for "set apart" ministry, we had one issue with the beliefs of the Church of the Brethren, explained the disagreement, and basically, the entire district board, thought that that was an issue they had as well, and that it was nothing to be concerned about because it was consistent with the heart of the teaching. I personally have been impressed with some of the local churches and very dissatisfied with others, in fact, some of the most hateful experiences we have had, have been in brethren churches, and in the same way, some of the most wonderful and encouraging experiences have been in the midst of brethren...like most other things, it's about the individual, and their walk with God, not the body, cause most bodies, sooner or later will allow the world to enter into their midst...just a thought for what it's worth.

So if the body strives to live for God...enjoy your time there, if they don't, run or stand and challenge them to do so...

 

[OzSpen]

Razzel,

Could you be confusing two streams of denominations here? The Open Brethren as I understand them are the descendants of J N Darby.

The Brethren to which you seem to be referring, seem to be of the Anabaptist heritage: Mennonite, Brethren Church, Church of the Brethren, etc.

Oz

 

[razzelflabben]

Razzel,

Could you be confusing two streams of denominations here? The Open Brethren as I understand them are the descendants of J N Darby.

The Brethren to which you seem to be referring, seem to be of the Anabaptist heritage: Mennonite, Brethren Church, Church of the Brethren, etc.

Oz

possibly, but my understanding was that they have shared roots....which is what I was basing my connections on...

 

[OzSpen]

possibly, but my understanding was that they have shared roots....which is what I was basing my connections on...

The Anabaptists (including Hutterites, Amish, Mennonites) have their roots in the Radical Reformation of the 16th century.

The roots of J N Darby are with the Plymouth Brethren, Dublin, Ireland, in the 1820s. He was christened in the Anglican Church.

The roots of the Anabaptists and those of J N Darby's Open Brethren are very different.

Oz

 

[1watchman]

Right! The COB and the PB are much different. Actually, the PB is a separation fellowship and has become a very loose fellowship much like all denoms. I am with the so-called "brethren movement of 1827 AD, and we hold to that truth in the revival and not the various separations. We value the very sound ministry of those early Bible teachers. One can read about it at the site: www.biblecounsel.homestead.com. Look up!

 

[jim dunkin]

The Open Brethren movement is a very strong local church movement in many countries in Europe. I have attended many Brethren church meetings back in the 70's and loved the order or non-order of the service. It was great to see a fellowship that met and worshiped without a preplanned and printed program and just allowed the spirit to move them, speak to them, and bless them.
I know very little of the "closed" Brethren church uther than only members may attend. I always suspected they would evaporate some day like the old Shaker's.

 

[OzSpen]

The Open Brethren movement is a very strong local church movement in many countries in Europe. I have attended many Brethren church meetings back in the 70's and loved the order or non-order of the service. It was great to see a fellowship that met and worshiped without a preplanned and printed program and just allowed the spirit to move them, speak to them, and bless them.
I know very little of the "closed" Brethren church uther than only members may attend. I always suspected they would evaporate some day like the old Shaker's.

This open order of worship of the Open Brethren does have one major limitation. It is not possible to fully practice 1 Cor. 14:26,

What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up (NIV).

In my part of the world, the Open Brethren require the silence of women in ministry in the public gathering. It is not possible for 'brothers AND sisters' and 'each of you' to minister. Only half of the congregation is eligible to participate.

Oz

 

[jim dunkin]

I don't disagree with what you say, however having an open worship service doesn't by necessity keep women quiet. That may be their way of worship and though I don't agree with it, I wonder what exactly would you would require for the women to do in a worship service to fullfill the scripture?

In my Baptist church the entire congregation participate with the singing of hymns and reading of scripture. Would you agree that we meet the test in 1 Corinthians?

We don't see endorsement of women congregational leaders in Paul's writings, but we certainly do see encouragement for women to exercise leadership in modesty and be Set Apart unto the Lord.

 

[OzSpen]

I don't disagree with what you say, however having an open worship service doesn't by necessity keep women quiet. That may be their way of worship and though I don't agree with it, I wonder what exactly would you would require for the women to do in a worship service to fullfill the scripture?

In my Baptist church the entire congregation participate with the singing of hymns and reading of scripture. Would you agree that we meet the test in 1 Corinthians?

We don't see endorsement of women congregational leaders in Paul's writings, but we certainly do see encouragement for women to exercise leadership in modesty and be Set Apart unto the Lord.

My experience with the Open Brethren (my sister and husband attend such an assembly and he is an elder) is that there is no role for women in public ministry where they minister alone (except for a solo or group singing.

My understanding is that 1 Cor. 14:26 is an application of the gifts of the Spirit that has been taught in chs. 12-14, which is open to everyone who is moved on by the Holy Spirit - men and women included. I'm not of the view that that is possible in the average traditional evangelical church where I live.

This is where I have an openness to the theology of the cell/house church as that seems to fit more closely with what happened much of the time in the first century - but there were times of larger group gatherings. For me, one of the best expositions of this in recent times has been Ralph Neighbour, Where Do We Go from Here? Jon Zens has also written some helpful material on every member ministry when the church gathers.

I'm convinced the churches are now in a mode of worship that is far removed from the first century and of the ministries of 1 Cor 12-14. As you can tell, I'm open to the charismata for today. Biblically I have not been able to see a way through that concludes with cessationism.

In Christ, Oz

 

[jim dunkin]

Thanks Oz,

I agree with much of what you have said and appreciate your thoughts.

 

[1watchman]

If one really wants to learn about the so-called "brethren movement" they can contact Bible Truth Publishers, Addison, IL; and also view and ask questions at www.biblecounsel.homestead.com.

There are a variety of opinions and personal preferences about this fellowship, and that is precisely what caused the several divisions from the revival of Church Truth in 1827 AD. Man always wants his interpretations, rather than bow to "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", as the Apostle Paul said.

I can allow everyone to believe what they choose, but I will gladly share what I have found through many years of study. One can PM me at my profile if they would like to talk more personally on this subject or our Bible in general. Look up always!