oooh I wish I had come aross this last week. For DD2008

[benedictaoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Il...ww.aquinasonline.com/&feature=player_embedded

 

[MamaZ]

This belongs in the Mary thread..

 

[Hentenza]

Mod Hat On
​

Thread moved to Mariology from GT​

 

[benedictaoo]

Did you view it mama?

 

[AndOne]

Despite what the video says at the end - it all looks like worship to me. Praying to? kneeling and bowing before, etc.? It stinks of idolatry to me and I don't want any part of it.

 

[benedictaoo]

despite of the scripture and the explanation behind it, eh?

 

[Musa80]

Despite what the video says at the end - it all looks like worship to me. Praying to? kneeling and bowing before, etc.? It stinks of idolatry to me and I don't want any part of it.

LOL I guess ridiculous statements like this are what brought on this thread

 

[&Abel]

I think combining Calvinism with Mary right now was uneeded

it just begs for an argument within an argument

 

[ArcticFox]

Basically, they perform all of the key elements of worship towards Mary, but yet somehow it is not "worship" because they rename it "veneration" or something else?

I can't help but feel that it's apples and apples.

My spirit is unable to differentiate the two and absolutely could not perform this "veneration" of Mary without it being "worship" in the biblical sense. I don't know how anyone could.

 

[Rhamiel]

Basically, they perform all of the key elements of worship towards Mary, but yet somehow it is not "worship" because they rename it "veneration" or something else?

I can't help but feel that it's apples and apples.

My spirit is unable to differentiate the two and absolutely could not perform this "veneration" of Mary without it being "worship" in the biblical sense. I don't know how anyone could.

well if you can not differentiate between the two it is good that you do not venerate our Lady
what is worship? are all those who kneel in prayer to God true worshipers? will not our Lord say to many "get away from me, I never knew you"
would he say that to someone who really worshiped Him?

 

[ArcticFox]

well if you can not differentiate between the two it is good that you do not venerate our Lady
what is worship? are all those who kneel in prayer to God true worshipers? will not our Lord say to many "get away from me, I never knew you"
would he say that to someone who really worshiped Him?

Well I imagine there is a huge difference between feigning worship, worshipping as a façade or for show, or worshipping some other god but calling it the true God...

and...

worshipping something other than the true God straight up.

I don't see how your example explains your position. Can you elaborate on it?

 

[MamaZ]

Did you view it mama?

I did

 

[MamaZ]

Now I ask where in all scripture is it ever written for what the Pope proclaimed in 1854?

 

[benedictaoo]

I guess everyone missed the point.

The part where we find her in tortillas and grilled cheese sandwiches, besides it being hilarious, the video was to show you what is extreme false veneration and what is true veneration.

The latter is authentic, the former is extreme.

and the Church does not agree that Mary appeared in tortillas and grill cheese. lol.

 

[MamaZ]

I see this as the same as the old testement account of the queen of heaven which is a title that man has given to Mary and not God

 

[MamaZ]

The Old Testement we are to read and understand that it was written for our benefit so that we may see their error and not be decieved into doing what those did and were condemned by God for.. So therefore I run from any sort of this behavior.

 

[benedictaoo]

Now I ask where in all scripture is it ever written for what the Pope proclaimed in 1854?

Genesis 3: 15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Luke 1: 46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.


Revelation 12: 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child:

14 And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

18 And he stood upon the sand of the sea.

The devil was angry becuase He could not get to her.. she was not his.

and Mary said her soul reflects the Lord... and that God had saved her. Christ was in her womb, not on the cross. So how was she saved and reflecting the spirit of God?

and she also said that God has done great things to her.

and in the beginning we see God promising to put enmity between Eve and Mary.

and we know the women in revelation 12 is the women in Genesis because what did Christ call His mother? Woman.

 

[MamaZ]

I have to disagree with what you have written in the above post. Because With the full counsel of the written word This is not the conclusion as to what the scriptures bring us to.

 

[MamaZ]

The devil can not get to any of Gods Children for greater is HE that is in me that he that is in the world.

 

[Rhamiel]

Well I imagine there is a huge difference between feigning worship, worshipping as a façade or for show, or worshipping some other god but calling it the true God...

and...

worshipping something other than the true God straight up.

I don't see how your example explains your position. Can you elaborate on it?

Worship is more then just a physical action, you see people kneeling infront of icons and statues and you call it "Mary Worship"
but you can not see a persons heart, so you can not really judge if it is worship or not

I see this as the same as the old testement account of the queen of heaven which is a title that man has given to Mary and not God

Ba'al was a pagan god, Ba'al means "Lord" but we call our God "Lord" as well? did we take that from the pagans?
no that idea is silly
just as there is the true Lord and a counterfeit lord
there is a true Queen of Heaven and a pagan counterfiet