OO and EO

[Xpycoctomos]

Here's the thread I started, in case anyone wants to take a gander later on or subscribe to it:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=27844162

 

[Xpycoctomos]

that would be a shame if it were so.

 

[theoforos]

Again, Pope is his title because he is a Patriarch. There is nothing 'wannabe' in this. [/quote]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I should have been clearer. I wasn't talking about the real pope Shenouda but about the other guy. And now I think I remembered even his name - Maximos - I think...

 

[Grigorii]

Unless by 'wannabe' pope, he is referring to someone other than Pope Shenouda. My memory is hazy, but I'm pretty certain that there has recently been some controversy with some vagante bishop trying to form his own Holy Synod in opposition to Pope Shenouda's. If that's the case then this vagante bishop could indeed, and correctly, be referred to as a 'wannabe' Pope.

James

Indeed. You're absolutely right. I think he was a Bishop or a priest who proclaimed himself Bishop and who saw himself forced to set up a real Coptic Orthodox Church cos' Pope Shenouda wasn't doing his job right (according to him). Which constitutes parasynagogue or schism (perhaps even heresy I dunno enough about this guy to say).

Gregorios

 

[Grigorii]

Again, Pope is his title because he is a Patriarch. There is nothing 'wannabe' in this. [/quote]

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, I should have been clearer. I wasn't talking about the real pope Shenouda but about the other guy. And now I think I remembered even his name - Maximos - I think...

Maxim or Maximos,.. You're right.

Gregorios

 

[copticorthodoxy]

The head of the Coptic Orthodox Church is H.H. Pope Shenouda III Pope of Alexandria and all St. Mark see

Maximous is not a priest or a bishop , he was just a deacon studing the theolgy in the Coptic Orthodox Clergy college and the Church Anathematised him from very long time , he went to non canonical orthodox church in USA and they ordained him as bishop !!
Actually no one follow him ... he is nothing to the Alexandrian Church .

And yes ofcourse the Coptic Orthodox Priests can marry , most of them are married .

Pope , bishops and monks can't marry

 

[theoforos]

The head of the Coptic Orthodox Church is H.H. Pope Shenouda III Pope of Alexandria and all St. Mark see

Maximous is not a priest or a bishop , he was just a deacon studing the theolgy in the Coptic Orthodox Clergy college and the Church Anathematised him from very long time , he went to non canonical orthodox church in USA and they ordained him as bishop !!
Actually no one follow him ... he is nothing to the Alexandrian Church .

And yes ofcourse the Coptic Orthodox Priests can marry , most of them are married .

Pope , bishops and monks can't marry

Thanks for the answer! I maybe should notify the magazine, and maybe they'll make a correction in the next issue...

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Indeed. You're absolutely right. I think he was a Bishop or a priest who proclaimed himself Bishop and who saw himself forced to set up a real Coptic Orthodox Church cos' Pope Shenouda wasn't doing his job right (according to him). Which constitutes parasynagogue or schism (perhaps even heresy I dunno enough about this guy to say).

Gregorios

HH Pope Shenouda III wrote an article that CO posted in the VitD forum:

I Am Saddened for You My Son

This article is wrote by H.H. Pope Shenouda III pope of Alexandria and all St. Mark see in " El Keraza Magazine " the official Coptic Orthodox magazine . it is about Max Michael who declared that he is an Archbishop
http://www.copticpope.org/downloads/...14-07-2006.pdf

what attracted me to this article that the Pope is calling him my son , how merciful is our great Pope Shenouda III

Max Michael was our son, as
son of the Coptic Church; he was
born in it, was baptized in it and
studied in our Theological College.
And when he graduated, he served
in our churched in Shobra, Zefta
and Tanta. Then came the big trial,
and it threw him outside the
church so he said: “I have nothing
at all to do with the mother
church…” and declared that he is a
bishop then said that he is a
Metropolitan, then an Archbishop
although he is married and has two
daughters. And to get out of this
trouble he declared that bishops
must be married.
I am saddened for you my
son. I am saddened for your
separation from your church,
saddened for you losing the
chance in gaining your eternity
and saddened for your claiming
your priesthood. And this claim
will not save you on the Last Day.
Those who appointed you were
not legitimate bishops and are not
truly Orthodox. And if they were,
tell us from which Orthodox
Church are they?! Whether from
the Eastern Orthodox Church ( The pope means the Oriental Orthodox Church , Oriental = Eastern ) or
the Byzantine Orthodox Church ( the pope means the Eastern Orthodox )
and these are well known Orthodox
churches.
And so long as they are not
legitimate Orthodox, their
ordaining you is also illegitimate.
And consequently all ordinations
you conducted to appoint priests or
bishops are also illegitimate.
And consequently every clergy
act you conduct is illegitimate and
this applies to all those you
ordained. And applies to you the

saying of the apostle that you
“think of yourself more highly than
you ought to think”.
Therefore, I tell you a decision
that may hurt you but is necessary
for the salvation of your soul.
We do not recognize your
ordination, nor do we
recognize your new name, and
before us you will remain Max
Michael. And we do not
recognize the ordinations you
made nor do we recognize any
clergy act you conduct.
And we warn the
congregation from accepting
any clergy acts from you:
neither a Baptism, Chrism (Myron)
Sacrament, Repentance
Sacrament, Eucharist, Matrimony
nor Priesthood Sacrament for all
these acts will be void by you.
And with all the love we invite
you to repentance and abandoning
what you are in now. And know
that the priesthood clothes and
titles will not save your soul in the
Last Day and will not open the
doors to God’s Kingdom before you
but might shut them in before you.
And do not rejoice in joining to
you all those who were deprived
from their priesthood rank or those
rebelling against the obedience of
the church. And do not rejoice in
opening the marriage door to
those whom the mother church
rejecting allowing their remarriage
in obedience to the bible
commandments.
This road that you are taking will
not lead you anywhere and I go
back and say: I am saddened for
you my son

And do not think that the
abundance of curses with which
you curse the mother church will
be an excuse for you to rebel.
God is capable of helping you
save your soul and have another
purpose other than this.

 

[minasoliman]

Greg, the dearest in Christ.

I just want to kiss you man.

Keep me in your prayers.

Mina

 

[Greg the byzantine]

Yes,.. It is indeed. Very beautiful. The vespers was done according to Coptic tradition tonight, and I think the main celebrant was Anba David.

Have you been there yourself?

Beautiful,.. Great food afterwards too!

Gregorios

Wow, Awesome!

Yes I have been inside St. Vartek's before, but I have never attended a service there. My Brother was at Rusk NYU Children's Hospital for a long time which is down the block, when he was being treated for Cancer. I used to go and pray there sometimes when the Hopsital would get to be too much for me.