Only way?

ml5363 said:

our pastor thinks that the lord will not return until every person from all corners of the earth have been reached..and have had the opportunity to hear the Gospel

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The disciples in the NEW TESTAMENT, And MANY since then,
believed Y'SHUA could return imminently (SOON), and they were RIGHT to eagerly expect Y'SHUA every day.
As it is written.

[Staff edit]

Well, the world's largest 'church' has 54 miles of books underground to explain it 'their way'.
OR
As Y'SHUA says, MY FATHER will teach you.[ecclesia born again with a new spirit].
Same as the FATHER YHWH REVEALED TRUTH TO the APOSTLES and DISCIPLES.

[Staff edit]

that is what the Holy Spirit does..brings conviction and understanding.

[Staff edit]

Or, you know, read a bit on current biblical scholarship.

-CryptoLutheran

Hello Joe, please permit me to add answers to these questions that I overlooked last night, as I was more concerned with clarifying the context of your OP verse. As I see today, these unanswered questions are still an obstacle for you:

Just_a_Joe said:

So, Jesus will judge all people according to their thoughts and deeds, and will take into account all the circumstances?

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I would not doubt this at all. Further, consider that any person facing such a damning verdict, will enter their plea in defense. Jesus is holy, righteous, refusing a bribe, not judging by appearances, etc (which is why He alone is worthy to be King of kings and Lord of lords), so we should expect agreement to be found regarding a person's culpability according to the truth in such a court where there are no secrets (Matthew 25:31, Revelation 20:11-12).

Just_a_Joe said:

At that time He will also save some non-Christians - not of His flock? Or does "His flock" imply the Jews?

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Jesus says in John 10:16 that some of His people are not of the Jewish flock, and He must bring them with Him (John 10:19, John 10:26). Who is it then, that He is describing as being His sheep? A very clear clue is given in John 18:37! His sheep are those who are on the side of the truth, who listen to Him and follow His voice (John 10:4-5).

What I have suggested by presenting John 10:16 in context of your OP question, is to describe the world after His return, resurrection and judgment, where He is The One Shepherd (Notice Ecclesiastes 12:11, which was written before John 14:6).

I would quite like to ask you a question too, if that is OK!

Do you perceive a logical inconsistency between the suggested character of God (fair, righteous, kind, good and loving etc), and the idea that you have, of His criteria for salvation?

Just_a_Joe said:

The method of escape: faith,

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Our Apostle Paul says, "faith working through love," in Galatians 5:6. Believing in Jesus needs to include how you change to His way of loving.

[QUOTE="

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.[/QUOTE]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

Romans 1:18-19.
I think GOD makes his presence known to everyone based off this scripture. Everyone is born a sinner so everyone is wicked by default. GOD makes his existence known to all so they can be saved without excuses.
A GOD thats perfect, merciful, and good in every way would not create any individual just so they would persoh in Hell for eternity.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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Probably going to Hell. If God gives them a chance after death, I don't think it would be a more believable chance than what people who have heard of Jesus get in this life - and Scripture does not teach that there is in fact such a chance.

Just_a_Joe said:

I'm not interested in knowing the numbers, just what fate awaits the people who haven't heard. What is the plan in Romans for those people, can you share your thoughts on that?

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Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

According to scripture "hearing" is not the critical factor.
Creation itself speaks of God and His divine nature.
Those who choose to ignore what God has created
are "without excuse" in the end.

Sketcher said:

Probably going to Hell. If God gives them a chance after death, I don't think it would be a more believable chance than what people who have heard of Jesus get in this life - and Scripture does not teach that there is in fact such a chance.

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Yes, it teaches that creation itself speaks for God,
so that men are without any excuses.
Even if they are born without eyes or ears.
I knew a blind man who was a wiz at math.
He said he could see math slopes and such just fine.

ToBeLoved said:

I'm pretty sure there is something in the Bible that talks about how the gospel will be preached to all the world before Jesus returns.

Can anyone help me out with the verses?

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Matthew 24:14

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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Romans 2:15New International Version (NIV)
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

People who never heard the gospel of judged by what they know and do. The person of Abraham is an example.
This doctrine is known as invincible ignorance.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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None of us believe God will send babies and little children or people who are severely mentally handicapped to hell. We're talking then about people who are capable of knowing God. John 3:15-18 describes how God loves us so much that He sent His only Son (to die) so that those who believe in Him will not perish for their sins but have eternal life. Whoever does not believe in the Son does not have life; his condemnation (for his sins) remains on him.

See, sin requires a blood sacrifice. Now, either Jesus is our sacrifice, or we are condemned for our sins. It's been this way from the beginning. God told Adam "dying you will die" (if he ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), which is typically translated "surely die," but I think "dying you will die" is more apt because Adam spiritually died and eventually he died physically as well. After death, unless a person has been forgiven through repentance and faith, they receive the penalty of their sins forever. We all sin (Romans 3) and we can't wipe away sin by good deeds (Romans 3:20). Adam was the federal head of the human race, and because of his sin we are all born sinners as well, and our natural end is death and condemnation. (Listen to this sermon if you would like to understand this better: https://www.mcleanbible.org/sermons/necessity-changing-races-0.)

If there were any other way for a person to be saved (outside of Jesus), Jesus would not have come and died. Physically He did not like the idea--read the accounts of His suffering in Gethsemane, for example, when He knew it was near. We need a perfect blood sacrifice, because without the shedding of blood there's no forgiveness of sin, and this is because the life of a creature is in the blood (see Leviticus 17:11 and Hebrews 9:22). God demonstrated this principle from the day Adam and Eve sinned when He slew an animal or animals to make clothes of skin for them (Genesis 3:20). They made fig leaf coverings, but they still hid when God came walking; their own actions couldn't take away their shame. Ours can't either. There wasn't death before that point (Romans 5:12)--both humans and animals were vegetarians (Genesis 1:29-30).



The blood of animals, though God accepted and required them for a time (to demonstrate the need for a blood sacrifice, as well as the seriousness of sin), they cannot take away sin because animals aren't human and thus aren't a suitable substitute for a human (Hebrews 10:4). Because no child of Adam is good (sinless), we cannot die for anyone else's sins--we all deserve to die for our own sins. And so, barring what Jesus did, the entire human race was condemned without any recourse. But God loved us so much that He offered the only solution that works in His sight--God wrapping Himself in flesh and having His blood shed to death--so that God may cover our sins and appropriate His righteousness to us by faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. He rose from the dead on the third day to prove that He is who He says He is and that so we may know that we can also be raised from the dead by Jesus. And Jesus is the eternal Creator by the way; He is called the Son because of the manner of his physical miraculous conception (by the power of God), but He wasn't created at the moment of his mother Mary's conception - He is the Creator (see John 1:1-3, John 1:14, Micah 5:2, Colossians 1:16).

Isaiah 59 talks about our sin problem and how God would provide the solution. This was the promise from the beginning (Genesis 3:15). Jesus is the Seed of the Woman who crushed the head of the serpent. Notice in the chapter the insufficient coverings, similar to Adam's fig leaves:

Isaiah 59:6
6 Their webs will not become garments,
Nor will they cover themselves with their works;
Their works are works of iniquity,
And the act of violence is in their hands.

Isaiah 53 describes the death of Jesus on behalf of many, to take away their sins. It also alludes to His resurrection. (I encourage you to read it.) This prophecy was in the Bible 600 years or so before Jesus came. A lot of specific details about Jesus's sacrifice were also included in Psalms 22.

Do you know that many Muslims are getting dreams and visions of Jesus? Even people who live in countries where the likelihood of hearing the gospel is slim, God is drawing to Himself. There's a film about it called More Than Dreams (www.morethandreams.org) - you can watch it online for free. Once they are ready, they seek out Christians. For many in these countries, deciding to follow Jesus is a death sentence. Their family members or countrymen will likely kill them for apostasy because they left Islam.

The call to follow Jesus is a call to die... to die to sinful living, and become a servant of Christ. Servants of Jesus will be persecuted and hated just as He was persecuted and hated, and sometimes they are killed just as He was killed. A Christian must be willing to stand firm in their faith and even to die for the name of Jesus, if their life is demanded of them. When Jesus comes again (and He will come), He will raise His dead to life (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17).

Do you understand these things I have shared with you? Is there anything holding you back or do you want to repent of your sins and trust in the only suitable offering for the forgiveness of your sins--the death of Jesus Christ?

God bless.

I believe.....................IF...........................(and that's a big IF), but if someone has not heard the gospel, but looks around at creation and thinks, "there is something bigger than me out there in control, something that controls all of THIS," that person will be saved. There ARE still civilizations (and I use that term weakly) that do not have their own language, way of communication, in written form yet, they can't even spell HELLO, much less JESUS.

But what is it that pleases God? FAITH. So when that person, who looks around, even though they don't have a Bible, even though their own language has not put down in written form, even though they have never heard the gospel, they have FAITH that something bigger than them out there is in control.

Now, as soon as someone IS able to hear the gospel, then that is an entirely different dynamic...

yeshuaslavejeff said:

No, HE did not. HE says HE created the place of torment for satan and his angels. Not for human beings.

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But human beings who reject Christ will go there.

Matthew 25:41
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

yeshuaslavejeff said:

The disciples in the NEW TESTAMENT, And MANY since then,
believed Y'SHUA could return imminently (SOON), and they were RIGHT to eagerly expect Y'SHUA every day.
As it is written.

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But Paul told the Thessalonians it won't happen until after the apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin who demands to be worshipped as God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4). This happens in the Tribulation (see Revelation 13). Jesus' return is not imminent therefore. Until a generation sees all these things (Matthew 24:4-28), the fig tree hasn't brought forth leaves and the season of His return is not imminent.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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I know the most common response that I have heard that it is ultimately up to God. That those who have not heard the Gospel will be judged according to how well they followed their conscience. There is a lot that could be debated with regards to that response. However, I would say that since we don't know for sure what happens, that we should strive so much more to reach those that have not heard.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

Click to expand...

Blind post. Sorry.

People don't end up in Hell because they haven't heard the Gospel and have, therefore, failed to accept Christ as their Saviour. They end up in Hell because they are sinners. It isn't ignorance that condemns people to eternal Hell but their wickedness. Every human person has a conscience (save those in whom, by injury, or defect, or age a moral sense is absent or severely diminished), the "law of God written on their heart," by which they possess an innate awareness of moral right and wrong. And every human contravenes that innate moral sense many, many times throughout their lifetime and in so doing comes under the condemnation and judgment of God.

Selah.

So the question basically is

Does God deep fry people who don't know his Son Jesus regardless of the reason why they don't know him

Asked of any other ruler this question would be considered a serious insult to that ruler. Will Obama torture people alive as long as possible because they don't know his family? Is this supposed to be some type of gruesome a joke? I was once a member of a denomination which has God mowing people down at Armageddon and suffering gruesome deaths for an almost identical reason, ignorance of a person deemed essential to salvation. Such individuals enthusiastically preach a concept of God as part of their Good News of the Kingdom. Their enthusiasm is admirable but unfortunately it it is a concept that dishonors him.

Radrook said:

Does God deep fry people who don't know his Son Jesus regardless of the reason why they don't know him

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He punishes them because of their sin, not their ignorance. Paul the apostle makes it clear that we all possess, not only a divinely-imparted moral sense, but also an innate awareness of God (Ro. 1:18-24). And most people ignore that sense, rebelling against the One who made them and sustains their existence moment-by-moment. If Paul is right, no one will be able to stand before God and say, "I never knew you existed!"

Radrook said:

Asked of any other ruler this question would be considered a serious insult to that ruler. Will Obama torture people alive as long as possible because they don't know his family? Is this supposed to be some type of gruesome a joke?

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God is utterly unlike any human ruler you can think of. Lump them all together and they still don't even begin to approach the power, and authority, and excellence of the Creator. Suggesting, then, that God ought to act after the manner of a human ruler, who is finite, ignorant, and corrupted by sin is to profoundly misunderstand who God is. God is nothing like Obama - and thank goodness He isn't!

As I have pointed out above, every person possesses some sense, some basic awareness of God. They know on a fundamental level that He is and first among the sins they commit against Him is ignoring and/or defying this knowledge. But what greater evil could there be than to shake one's fist in the face of the One to whom one owes one's entire existence? It is from this evil rebellion that much of human wickedness springs.

Radrook said:

I was once a member of a denomination which has God mowing people down at Armageddon and suffering gruesome deaths for an almost identical reason, ignorance of a person deemed essential to salvation.

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The judgments of God in the Revelation are explicitly and specifically upon the wickedness and rebellion of mankind, not upon their ignorance of the Gospel. It is a testament to the smallness of God in a person's thinking - and their poor understanding of the incredible vileness of their sin - that they object to His punishing their sin with eternal torment.

Selah.