Only way?

mark kennedy · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

First of all there is one requirement for salvation, it's the righteousness of God in Christ, to receive this new nature, you must be born again. That said, God makes his divine attributes and eternal nature known to every soul that comes into the world. The ancient Jews had the Law which were the Oracle's of God so early Christian in Rome thought themselves superior to Gentile believers. Paul tells the the Gentile who do not have the Law do by nature the things in the Law become a law unto themselves. Its called the law of conscience and God judges us all by exposing our hidden motives, matter of conscience. You are only responsible for what light you have, the only ones rejected and burned at final judgment are the children of perdition. There has to be a time of decision and if you never heard the gospel you are not held responsible. Everyone not raised at the return of Christ are judged after the thousand year reign of Christ. The is a mention of books being open but what's opened are the hidden motives. If they are not found in the book of life they go on to perdition.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Tree of Life · Oct 6, 2016

Albion said:
No, "Abraham's Bosom" was a kind of limbo for those who would be saved except that no one could be saved until Christ's perfect sacrifice atoned for the sins of mankind.

Sounds speculative. How do you know this?

So, as I said, it's not every Jew who came before Jesus. Yet the issue here on this thread is that God is somehow unfair if billions who never heard the name of Jesus are not saved.

God is not unfair in kicking a rebellious tenant off of his land. He is not unfair in condemning a sinner to hell. All I'm saying, in response to the OP, is that it's possible to be saved by Jesus without having heard the name of Jesus. Case-in-point: Abraham.

Just_a_Joe · Oct 6, 2016

Colter said:
God created an evolutionary world that was betrayed.

No comprendo.

CrystalDragon · Oct 6, 2016

Colter said:
He didn't, that was written in an age when they thought God was responsible for good and evil. Man lies quite on his own.

Though God in the OT claims He is responsible for good and evil, for peace and calamity. Satan obeyed God's orders in Job, it wasn't until the NT that the devil was directly seen as being in opposition to God and God no longer doing the kind of things in the OT.

And regarding hell, there's nothing objectionable about punishing people for crimes, it's the infinite torture aspect of hell that'd the problem.

Colter · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
No comprando.

Our evolutionary world was betrayed by a celestial administrator. Adam and Eve arrived on a world that had already fallen, they initially fell but repented. It was Adam and Eve who lost their immortality status. Death was already normal for man.

Just_a_Joe · Oct 6, 2016

Colter said:
I agree with you on this, the many different Christian doctrines leave a lot to be desired.

That's how I feel....... Thank you for supporting........ Causes me a looooooooot of frustration............

Colter said:
In my theology death adds nothing accept the fact of survival, we pick up right where we left off on this world in terms of our spiritual growth. Upon awakening on the mansion worlds we slowly begin to remember the good experiences of our earth life, the bad is forgotten.

A new stage of life, so to speak?

Colter · Oct 6, 2016

CrystalDragon said:
Though God in the OT claims He is responsible for good and evil, for peace and calamity. Satan obeyed God's orders in Job, it wasn't until the NT that the devil was directly seen as being in opposition to God and God no longer doing the kind of things in the OT.

And regarding hell, there's nothing objectionable about punishing people for crimes, it's the infinite torture aspect of hell that'd the problem.

Job is a parable not fact.

Colter · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
That's how I feel....... Thank you for supporting........ Causes me a looooooooot of frustration............

A new stage of life, so to speak?

Yes, a new stage, a new kind of body and not a broken world.

CrystalDragon · Oct 6, 2016

Colter said:
Job is a parable not fact.

How do we know it's supposed to be taken as a parable?

Colter · Oct 6, 2016

CrystalDragon said:
How do we know it's supposed to be taken as a parable?

It's kind of obvious don't you think? Like Jonah and the whale.

ViaCrucis · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
So, I am confused now. Does that mean, if we agree with your view, 99.99% of any kind of churches simply don't know what they're talking about?

Not at all, in fact I would say that the majority of Christians would say more-or-less the same as I have, if using different words. What I've said would basically jive with both Catholic and Orthodox teaching, and those two churches alone comprise nearly about 2/3 of all Christians on the planet. It would also be in keeping with what, arguably, most Mainline Protestant denominations would say.

See the Catholic teaching on Invincible Ignorance, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance_(Catholic_theology)

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Oct 6, 2016

CrystalDragon said:
How do we know it's supposed to be taken as a parable?

I don't think Job is a parable, but Job is wisdom literature--it's therefore in the same literary genre as Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, not historical books like the books of Kings or Ezra.

-CryptoLutheran

Albion · Oct 6, 2016

Tree of Life said:
Sounds speculative. How do you know this?

It's the conventional interpretation. We do know that Jesus went to the spirits in 'prison' between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday, and that no one could be saved by keeping the Law prior to Christ.

God is not unfair in kicking a rebellious tenant off of his land. He is not unfair in condemning a sinner to hell. All I'm saying, in response to the OP, is that it's possible to be saved by Jesus without having heard the name of Jesus. Case-in-point: Abraham.

But there's no reason to think that 1) this applies to anyone after the coming of Christ--which was what we were being told on this thread and 2) we do not know for a fact that Abraham was in heaven prior to the Resurrection of Christ.

Colter · Oct 6, 2016

ViaCrucis said:
I don't think Job is a parable, but Job is wisdom literature--it's therefore in the same literary genre as Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, not historical books like the books of Kings or Ezra.

-CryptoLutheran

Yea, that's a better term, wisdom literature.

Tellastory · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

I believer God the Father knows Whom will receive Jesus from those that would not believe in Him. No man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him. John 6:44

It is the Father that gives us to the Son to be saved. John 6:37-40

The Father knows whom will prefer the evil deeds over coming to the Son to be reproved of them by Him. John 3:18-21

Evidence is shown here where the disciples were led by the Holy Spirit not to go into certain countries until a short while later, they were led to go into Macedonia because the Father knew there were people there that He would give unto the Son for He foreknew that they did not prefer their evil deeds over Him. Acts 16:6-10

God the Father knows whom are seeking Him from those that are not. Matthew 7:7-8

The gospel has been sounded thru out all the earth. Romans 10:18

So we can trust God the Father that those that "never heard the gospel" but went to hell, it is because He knew they would never had received His Son in the first place for they prefer their evil deeds over Him.

Now.. keep in mind that those you had preached to and had rejected the gospel, that they may very well believe in Him later on in life or even call on Him on their deathbed, and so there is always hope for those you love & care about to keep them in prayers.

But as it is, when after the fact, if they are in hell, it is because they prefer their evil deeds over Him & eternal life.

Church2u2 · Oct 6, 2016

Belief in Jesus is hard for some people because He is no longer here on earth. He is a stranger to some. He's like the celebrity that you hear about but probably never get a chance to meet.Scripture tells us that He is the only way to God the Father but then if we have never met Jesus then how can we believe that.It's simple. We have to have faith enough to believe in a man that we've never met and one who died and then ascended thousands of years ago. I think it all starts with faith.If we can accept that Jesus existed in the first place and died but rose again on the third day then we can pretty much believe that He is the only way that we can reach God.At least that's how it was for me.

JudyH · Oct 6, 2016

Not sure if anyone has said this yet, and I don't have time right now to read all the replies, but two points:

1. People in the Old Testament believed in Jesus without "knowing" him. How could that be?

2. When Jesus died, Scripture says that before He rose, He went and preached to the souls in prison. Presumably those were people who believed, but never had a chance to fully understand God's salvation or hear the good news about Jesus.

Is there any reason to think that even now, if someone dies without hearing the Gospel, Jesus might still show up and tell them the good news before they go on to judgement?

ml5363 · Oct 6, 2016

our pastor thinks that the lord will not return until every person from all corners of the earth have been reached..and have had the opportunity to hear the Gospel

Albion · Oct 6, 2016

I'd have to call that very much a minority opinion. He could be right, of course, but there are few pastors on his side on that issue.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 6, 2016

Colter said:
God created an evolutionary world that was betrayed.

Betrayed, perhaps yes.
evilutinoary (SIC), never.

Only way?

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