Only way?

It is my personal conviction and belief that all will someday have the chance to see and know Christ, understand what He has done for us, and be saved through Him.

John 5:22-23, 1 John 2:2, 2 Peter 3:9

Just_a_Joe said:

Does that mean, if we agree with your view, 99.99% of any kind of churches simply don't know what they're talking about?

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I would qualify this by substituting: "99.99% of any kind of religious institutions", and you are spot on.

ToBeLoved said:

Isn't the seed our deeds for Christ? If that's the case then we would sow more seed on our own. Right?

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Why is this a mystery? Are we that enslaved to the supermarket culture?
Seed is seed. It is scattered, by our actions, or by talking about stuff. When a bit of rain falls, maybe something like a bit of hardship, a bit of pain perhaps, or something that makes a man think, it sprouts a wee germ, it malts and becomes sweet.
Then it becomes something that if it is nutured aright by God or by God's Man, it will grow and produce seed of its own...

Anguspure said:

Why is this a mystery? Are we that enslaved to the supermarket culture?
Seed is seed. It is scattered, by our actions, or by talking about stuff. When a bit of rain falls, maybe something like a bit of hardship, a bit of pain perhaps, or something that makes a man think, it sprouts a wee germ, it malts and becomes sweet.
Then it becomes something that if it is nutured aright by God or by God's Man, it will grow and produce seed of its own...

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yes, sort of as Y'SHUA said - Whatever is inside of a person, that is what comes out, what others see (whether words or actions).
And the Testimony of Y'SHUA is what outsiders see in the lives
(full, from the inside out, Y'SHUA all thru the thoughts, words and deeds)
of ecclesia (born again ones in the Body of Christ on earth).

Dear Just_a_Joe. In the Gospels Jesus tells us: "I am the Truth and the Way and the Life. No-one will come the Father but through me." In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. The second is like it: love your neighbour as yourself."
In verse 40 we are told: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: "Ask and you shall receive," we ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all with our neighbour.
(neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends)
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," we give up all our selfish wishes and wants, and start loving and caring. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY.
We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us and carry on loving and caring.
JESUS IS THE WAY, AND WE SHALL FOLLOW JESUS BACK TO GOD. I cannot think of another way, JESUS IS THE WAY. I say this with love, Just_Joe. Greetings from Emmy, your sister of Christ.

joseph_ said:

Many people are saved or are considered righteous in scripture without knowing Jesus, like Job or Melchizedek, and neither were even Jewish.

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I wouldn't say 'many'. I would say that some.

wayfaring man said:

For one - Where more is given, more is required. (See Luke 12:47+48).

Secondly, Yeshua is the embodiment of all that is right and good.

So, if people who haven't heard The Gospel, believe in doing what's right and good, they are believing in Yeshua, in the best way their situation allows. So I can't see them as being condemned.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. <---> 1st John 2:2

On the other hand for us who have heard The Gospel, and who believe we've accepted Christ, if we do not also believe in doing what is right and good, then we are likely presuming too much, and in danger of condemnation.

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The judgement of hell in return for sin is a righteous judgement. That is a principle of the gospel. Secondly those who do not have Jesus cannot do good. Jesus said that we can do nothing except through him. The good things they do would actually be for self glorification. Because of that, they are actually leading people away from God and causing more harm and grief. Good works are either an act of faith or they are selfish ambition and vain conceit. Only hell is a just reward for an enemy of God.

If you not heard about Jesus and accepted his gospel, it means you go to hell. That's why my church want to preach gospel of Jesus Christ to all people!

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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Man was originally created in the image of God, and even though that image is now warped and damaged by sin, we still have an instinctive knowledge of the true God, and of right and wrong. We have this thing called a conscience. It's a compound word meaning "with knowledge".

The law is written on the hearts of men. Roman 2:11-16
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified .
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness , and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another {their conscience...: or, the conscience witnessing with them} {the mean...: or, between themselves}
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

I'm going to keep this short, because to answer your question takes a bit of time.
Just know this. Just hearing about or not hearing about Christ doesn't make one a Christian.
Everyone is a sinner, and no one is righteous, not one of us. Except through Christ and only Christ will we see the Father. Which is in Heaven.

I can elaborate more on this, but as stated. It isn't a one post write.
And here's another thing, If God has placed this on your heart, that there are those out there not hearing about Christ. Maybe it's a calling that God has for you. Pray and ask God to lead you more and help you to understand why you have this question, maybe He wants you to go somewhere in the world that needs to hear the Gospel.
Those in the missions, are brave Children of God, I pray for them every time I pray.
My missions Is here in the states, I know this, and I give God the praise for that. But yours could be any where in the world.

It is said that Adam and Eve brought sin and death to the earth, but if that was true, and no one was supposed to die, the earth would be very, very crowded. Adam and Eve lost their own immortality status, death was already normal on the earth. The proof in in the ground.

Colter said:

It is said that Adam and Eve brought sin and death to the earth, but if that was true, and no one was supposed to die, the earth would be very, very crowded. Adam and Eve lost their own immortality status, death was already normal on the earth. The proof in in the ground.

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Are you talking about human beings? Or some other creation?

Would be helpful if you took a little more time to clearly and with detail make your point.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hmmmmmmmm.... Very very interesting!!!!!!!!!! Really, I've never in my life met anyone who (at least openly) shared about such beliefs. Are there many people like that, do you know? I'm discovering something new today.

Basically, you are saying, Jesus isn't the only way in the traditional or most common interpretation of that. So, He is the way no matter what, but that way can be expressed in many ways for us... Like, for example, being a Muslim and never hearing the gospel of Jesus in their lifetime? Or being born before Jesus's time? Or not hearing anything about Jesus like aboriginal peoples on different island and continents before the arrival of Europeans? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Interesting. Very very interesting. This is smth new to me.

But then, what to do with all the traditional religions? Just toss them all as garbage, so to speak?

I guess you're saying no matter who you were and what you believed or disbelieved during your earthly life, you get a shot at heaven? This is pretty radical to me. Doesn't sound Christian at all.

Can you please explain more, maybe with some examples of different scenarios if you can?

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Ok, an example: what is the fate of the person who sought God under different circumstances or was a good person? A Muslim, for example.

My first thought here is that I just don't know. I don't think there is a solid Christian answer here.

My second thought here is that God, in the Christian understanding, is a merciful & benevolent being. Therefore, I think Christians can suggest that God can reasonably show mercy & grace to any person.

I wouldn't be comfortable with saying anything akin to "all religions lead to the same path." What I am comfortable saying is that Jesus is ultimately the "way" for a person to come to God, regardless of that person's lived cultural or religious experience.

Put another way, I keep in mind what a priest I knew once said in a class discussion: that the only person who won't be forgiven is the person who won't accept forgiveness. So I ask myself, will only Christians be forgiven, or could God forgive any repentant person in the end? I believe God could forgive any repentant person, though again this is something I just don't know for sure.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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All have an opportunity to hear the Gospel at some level. Colossians teaches that the Word went out to all nations. Families are to preserve that Gospel by teaching their children. It is God who calls the elect and He surely provides that they will hear and believe the Gospel. Also, God knows the heart so as to judge. You need only worry about your own salvation and testifying to all you have access too.

Colter said:

It is said that Adam and Eve brought sin and death to the earth, but if that was true, and no one was supposed to die, the earth would be very, very crowded.

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Objection.... speculation....

What if God planned on a certain number of people to live with Him, worship Him, commune with Him and spend eternity in relationship with Him as Adam and Eve did before they sinned?

What if, after they sinned and death entered the world, it took 6000 years to accumulate enough believers and true worshipers of God the way He had planned and the rest are bound for an eternity separate from Him..... The earth would not be crowded. Just full of righteous people just like Adam and Eve were. The exact number God had planned for.

To assume that we know or can guess what the world would have been like if sin had not entered the world is a very risky presumption to base any argument upon.

Colter said:

Adam and Eve lost their own immortality status, death was already normal on the earth. The proof in in the ground.

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Says you. It's your opinion. Not theology. Not sound doctrine. Not well grounded if you pardon the pun.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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What About Those People Who Have Died Never Hearing About Jesus?

God is sovereign over His creation. God knows the hearts of all men. God knows the future of every person because God is outside of time. God is righteous and good and He will judge all men fairly. So what about those who die not hearing the gospel message or without hearing about Jesus? Is there a chance they are saved? Can someone live righteously apart from faith in Jesus and be saved? No, it's not possible. Yeah, but that doesn't sound fair.

Well, you have to understand that if any man desires to truly know God, the Lord will send someone so that they may hear the gospel message. However, those who do not desire God or those who will just end up rejecting God's message are under no obligation that they must receive the gospel message in order to be condemned. First, God would have already known about their denial of Him (if they were to have heard the gospel message). There are no surprises for God. There is nothing that He does not know. He knows the life of an entire individual before they are even born. That is why God is able to take innocent babies to Paradise. God knows that these babies are those who would have accepted Him if they lived out their life. Second, men do not seek after God. The Bible teaches that the unbelieving individual is “holding down the truth in unrighteousness” (Romans 1:18). For man is not seeking after God but actually running from Him. “There is none that seeketh after God” (Romans 3:11, KJV). Therefore, it is not a case of God refusing to get His Word to someone who is desperately searching for the truth.

In other words, those who have not heard of the gospel message and died are those type of people of whom God knew would have just rejected Jesus and the gospel anyways. For if anyone who truly desires God, then the Lord will send them a true believer whereby they will hear about Jesus and the gospel.

For God answered the prayer of Cornelius, and sent the apostle Peter to him to give him the full story of Jesus. When Peter preached to him, Cornelius put his trust in Christ as his Savior. This example demonstrates that anyone who is sincerely desiring to know God will hear about Jesus.

There are people today, like Cornelius, who are praying the same prayer to know the true and living God, and they are being reached no matter where they might live. Simon Peter stated, “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him” (Acts 10:34–35, KJV).

The Scriptures contain other examples of individuals who were accepted by God, even though their knowledge of Him was limited. Rahab, the prostitute, had only the smallest amount of knowledge of God, but the Bible refers to her as a woman of faith, and her actions were commended (Joshua 2:9; Hebrews 11:31).

Naaman, the Syrian, was granted peace with God because he exercised faith, even though he was living in the midst of a pagan culture (II Kings 5:15–19). Jonah, the prophet, was sent to Nineveh, a heathen society, and they repented at his preaching (Jonah 3:5).

No one will be condemned for not ever hearing of Jesus Christ. That person will be condemned for violating his own moral standard. “For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

“For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel” (Romans 2:12–16, KJV).

In fact, it is the same way God has always done things. For God operated in the same way in the Old Testament, too. For God or Christ does not change (Malachi 3:6) (Hebrews 13:8). He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is loving and fair to all people. But not all people desire God, though.


Source Used:
http://www.josh.org/resources/study...about-those-who-have-never-heard-about-jesus/


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Jason0047 said:

In fact, it is the same way God has always done things. For God operated in the same way in the Old Testament, too. For God or Christ does not change (Malachi 3:6) (Hebrews 13:8). He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is loving and fair to all people. But not all people desire God, though.

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'yesterday, today, and forever' just said that in another thread....

then thought- YHWH TOO - same in the OLD TESTAMENT AS TODAY ---
A LOT OF ISRAELITES who DID HEAR of HIM(obviously, eh?)
were destroyed
because of UNbelief (right?) - UNbelief, not because they disobeyed HIM, but UNbelief.
And they knew HIM better than most people TODAY ! (who have heard of JESUS)
(apparently)
And YHWH repeats this in the NEW TESTAMENT ! (right?)
Something like "Do not expect to escape TODAY if they did not escape back THEN"
and
THIS was about people who have heard. NOT about people who have not heard.

JacksBratt said:

Objection.... speculation....

What if God planned on a certain number of people to live with Him, worship Him, commune with Him and spend eternity in relationship with Him as Adam and Eve did before they sinned?

What if, after they sinned and death entered the world, it took 6000 years to accumulate enough believers and true worshipers of God the way He had planned and the rest are bound for an eternity separate from Him..... The earth would not be crowded. Just full of righteous people just like Adam and Eve were. The exact number God had planned for.

To assume that we know or can guess what the world would have been like if sin had not entered the world is a very risky presumption to base any argument upon.



Says you. It's your opinion. Not theology. Not sound doctrine. Not well grounded if you pardon the pun.

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Adam and Eve lost the use of the "tree of life" which sustained their immortality. Death was already on the earth, its normal, we dig up the fossil record of those dead things that span millions of years. Death came to Adam and Eve who materialized on an evolved earth, this can be extrapolated from the fragmented Genesis account.

If God wanted perfect people on earth to stay here forever then he would have made them perfect. Rather God made man who can choose life eternal beyond this world or not.

Colter said:

Adam and Eve lost the use of the "tree of life" which sustained their immortality. Death was already on the earth, its normal, we dig up the fossil record of those dead things that span millions of years. Death came to Adam and Eve who materialized on an evolved earth, this can be extrapolated from the fragmented Genesis account.

If God wanted perfect people on earth to stay here forever then he would have made them perfect. Rather God made man who can choose life eternal beyond this world or not.

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Those dead things did not span millions of years. Death came after the fall. It was not here all along. When God created things, He repeatedly stated "God saw that it was good." How could it be "good" if there was death?

JacksBratt said:

Those dead things did not span millions of years. Death came after the fall. It was not here all along. When God created things, He repeatedly stated "God saw that it was good." How could it be "good" if there was death?

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Because death is normal, this isn't our permanent home. We have the fossil proof as well as radiometric dating methods to determine that the earth is very old. The Hebrews creation story isn't accurate.

Just_a_Joe said:

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

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Jesus is the only way to the Father for all people including those that predate him and predate the law yet those people did not know him. The "rules" of salvation seem different then than they do now and it seems that today every person needs an understanding of who Jesus is to obtain salvation from him. I don't see the bible showing that. The NT seems to show us that what we are given is what we are judged by. Such as the parable of the talents where different servants are given different amounts of talents and are judge according to what they are originally given. But what about those given no talents? Certainly Jesus is the way to salvation but do you need to understand who Jesus is to obtain that salvation? It's not something anyone here is able to answer but I have heard and experienced Jesus having encounters in areas where the gospel is restricted that I know he doesn't let close doors or unexplored areas be void of his glory.