only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally?

[GreatistheLord]

Just started reading a book about prayer by Dr Myles Munroe, and was amazed to read a section on spiritual laws .....

"only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally" since mankind has dominion over the Earth, even God and angels needs Man do operate here.

Does this make sense? just seems very strange.

 

[Faulty]

"The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein, for he has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the rivers." Psalms 24:1-2​

For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.”
1 Cor 10:26


Does this sound like a God who needs man to operate on the earth?

The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.

Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.

You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Psalms 2:7-12
​

 

[GreatistheLord]

I suppose God kicking Adam and Eve out of the garden is the 1st major clue.

 

[Optimax]

That is true. Jesus had to have a body to be here "legally"

The devil didn't have one and had to "talk" a snake into a loan.

When a person dies and is separated from theirs they have to leave, either heaven or hell.

 

[Faulty]

That is true. Jesus had to have a body to be here "legally"

The devil didn't have one and had to "talk" a snake into a loan.

You have any verses for either of those claims?

 

[Tobias]

Just started reading a book about prayer by Dr Myles Munroe, and was amazed to read a section on spiritual laws .....

"only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally" since mankind has dominion over the Earth, even God and angels needs Man do operate here.

Does this make sense? just seems very strange.

If this were true, it would explain the importance of prayer. God knows our needs before we ask... but then needs our permission before He can do anything about them? ("Thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven.")


Ha! I don't think so. But it is an interesting theory.

 

[GreatistheLord]

to be fair, there is nothing in Genesis about this "law". It may seem plausible for the reasons covered about prayer, but it is not backed up by any scripture.

The references to law and legality are meaningless, because the "judge" would ask for proof, not some flaky analogy. God didnt ask Adam and Eve's permission to send an angel to expel them, did He?

 

[Optimax]

You have any verses for either of those claims?

Consider what Jesus said here.

John 10:1-2
10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
KJV

The devil "climb up some other way". He stole authority from Adam. Jesus entered by the "door". The door He is referring to is the womb of a woman.

Satan used the body of a snake to deceive Eve.

Gen 3:1-2
3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
KJV


Ever seen or hear of anyone doing "business" on earth like going to the bank, grocery store, work, etc., without a body?

 

[GreatistheLord]

You may be absolutely correct, but making theology out of anecodotal evidence is simply not treating the Bible with respect. It is an unproveable theory.

How many christian snake handlers, or self crucifiers do you need to find to understand this? The world is full of well meaning christians who take scriptures, extrapolate them to extraordinary lengths, and end up doing really stupid things.

No offence to you or Dr Munroe intended, i speak as someone who risks the very same at times.

 

[Faulty]

Consider what Jesus said here.

John 10:1-2
10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
KJV

The devil "climb up some other way". He stole authority from Adam. Jesus entered by the "door". The door He is referring to is the womb of a woman.

Satan used the body of a snake to deceive Eve.

Gen 3:1-2
3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
KJV


Ever seen or hear of anyone doing "business" on earth like going to the bank, grocery store, work, etc., without a body?

First, I think you are a little confused about that a 'sheepfold' is, being an actual structure.

Second, that passage in context is not Jesus explaining His "right" to dwell on the earth.

Third, where to you make the leap that God is calling the womb to be the "door" into this world. I can see where we could make the comparison, within certain contexts, but we aren't the One speaking here.

You say Jesus is calling the womb here a door, even though he makes no mention of a womb, childbirth, or even pregnancy. Where do you see God calling the womb the doorway to earth?

Besides, it's not the womb that made Him "legal". He had set foot on earth in a body several times prior to this and exercised His judgment on the earth, it was the womb that made Him physically a 'son of man', and thereby able to take our place as the punishment of our sins, to reconcile us to the Father.

 

[Tobias]

to be fair, there is nothing in Genesis about this "law". It may seem plausible for the reasons covered about prayer, but it is not backed up by any scripture.

The references to law and legality are meaningless, because the "judge" would ask for proof, not some flaky analogy. God didnt ask Adam and Eve's permission to send an angel to expel them, did He?

Good point!

If Adam still had authority, then he could have commanded the angel guarding the way back into Eden to leave so they could get back in.

Or is that the point? Man had no more dominion until Jesus took it back? In which case, God had to ask Satan's permission to kick them out of the Garden. And Satan had to give his permission for other things too like Sodom and Gommorrah... and the whole covenant with Israel thing.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Just started reading a book about prayer by Dr Myles Munroe, and was amazed to read a section on spiritual laws .....

"only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally" since mankind has dominion over the Earth, even God and angels needs Man do operate here.

Does this make sense? just seems very strange.

Does this make sense? no it doesn't. It is nonsense.

First, Man's dominion is delegated from God. When a king gives a governor dominion over a province, the King doesn't need the governor's permission to do anything because all the governor's authority, all his dominion is the king's. All his authority rests in the fact that he represents the king.

Secondly, the idea that because man has dominion, therefore only entity's with physical bodies can operate 'legally' on earth is a logical non-sequiter. The conclusion does not follow from the premise.

Thirdly, the bible makes it abundantly clear that Angels are perfectly capable of taking on physical form whenever they need to, thus even if this were true it would be no hinderance to them at all.



A couple of points regarding other things mentioned in the thread.

The 'serpent' in the garden was probably not a snake. The word serpent in hebrew is nachash and it has three or four different meanings. Its use in Genesis is probably meant to be a kind of double meaning. In one of its meanings (given the context in Genesis) it describes a shinning or glittering being. Given that satan is also described as a serpent in other places in scripture, it is probable that he has some serpentine features.
The point being, in Genesis when it describes him as a serpent, it doesn't mean he was a snake, nor does it mean he posessed or inhabited a snake's body. He was probably there in his true, original form.

The incarnation of Jesus has nothing to do with his needing a body in order to operate legally on earth. The Holy Spirit operates on earth all the time and yet has never been embodied.
The purpose of Jesus' incarnation was so that he could redeem our nature, and thus us, by joining it (and us) to himself. In short, he became like us, so that we could become like him.

 

[lismore]

1 Cor 15

38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Just started reading a book about prayer by Dr Myles Munroe, and was amazed to read a section on spiritual laws .....

"only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally" since mankind has dominion over the Earth, even God and angels needs Man do operate here.

Does this make sense? just seems very strange.

I've read Miles Munroe's book Rediscovering The Kingdom and he made a good case for it there. God gave dominion to humans, and only humans to dominate the earth. God limited himself in his influence on earth by giving the job of dominion to Adam. Gods original plan was for him to rule over heaven, and or the spiritual realm while man was supposed to repressent God's Kingdom here on earth. He decreeded that legal action from his kingdom had to be presented by man and man alone.

 

[nephilimiyr]

"The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein, for he has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the rivers." Psalms 24:1-2​

For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.”
1 Cor 10:26


Does this sound like a God who needs man to operate on the earth?

The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.

Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.

You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Psalms 2:7-12
​

Ownership does not equate to rulership if the owner gives his rulership to someone else. God gave a command, He made a kingly decree, that man was to have dominion, not him, not angles, nor any other spiritual being, only man.

The Kingdoms authority, wishes, and desires can only be Legal if the action is made by a man here on earth. Thats one of the main reasons why God had to become man in order for the Kings desires of salvation for his creation to become legal and true.

 

[nephilimiyr]

That is true. Jesus had to have a body to be here "legally"

The devil didn't have one and had to "talk" a snake into a loan.

When a person dies and is separated from theirs they have to leave, either heaven or hell.

It's also the main reason why Satan and his minions had their own plan of infesting the human race with the Nephilim. If the angels could infest the human race with their own offspring then they would have complete authority for what happens on earth. Gods counter plan was Noah and the great flood, and of course He was successful!!

 

[nephilimiyr]

You have any verses for either of those claims?

Gensis, God gives dominion over the earth to man.

Genesis 1:26, And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over - and over all the earth,

 

[nephilimiyr]

to be fair, there is nothing in Genesis about this "law". It may seem plausible for the reasons covered about prayer, but it is not backed up by any scripture.

The references to law and legality are meaningless, because the "judge" would ask for proof, not some flaky analogy. God didnt ask Adam and Eve's permission to send an angel to expel them, did He?

A king, our God, giving dominion to man over a territory, earth, is all about law and legality.

Once Adam and Eve sinned they gave up their legal status of repressing the kingdom, therefore God had every legal recourse to judge them, sentence them, and kick them out of the Garden of Eden. Because Adam and Eve had lost their representative status with the kingdom they had no legal recourse but to adhere to the sentence the king passed down upon them.

 

[nephilimiyr]

You may be absolutely correct, but making theology out of anecodotal evidence is simply not treating the Bible with respect. It is an unproveable theory.

And that works both ways.

 

[eagle eye]

the armour of our warfare can be used in a spiritual sense,spiritual realm and the natural realm.,

you can be attacked by spiritual forces, that dont have bodies.