One thing I don't understand about the creationist position

[OldWiseGuy]

That is like saying astrology and astronomy are
competing theories.
Zero evidence for astrology.
Zero theory.

"Creation" is not a theory either. Just for one,
nothing could disprove it.

To whom is ToE incomprehensible?'
And why should acceptance be a problem for an educated
Christian, any more than the age and size of the
universe?

Choosing "truth" on the basis of what is comfortable
is a fools game.

I can't speak for all creationists, but personally I believe the Spirit of Truth. Doing so frees me up to focus on other things. It's fun to discuss it however.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Omphalos?

There is some truth in such mythology. Icarus is a good example (the fall of Lucifer).

 

[Astrid]

I can't speak for all creationists, but personally I believe the Spirit of Truth. Doing so frees me up to focus on other things. It's fun to discuss it however.

I guess a irrelevancy frees you from direct response?
That ain't much of a discussion.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

There is some truth in such mythology. Icarus is a good example.

Care to elaborate on that example?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I guess a irrelevancy frees you from direct response?
That ain't much of a discussion.

And "Omphalos" isn't irrelevant?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Care to elaborate on that example?

Icarus is a type of Lucifer.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Icarus is a type of Lucifer.

... I'm sorry, what? The story of how Daedalus, the man charged by king Minos of Crete with creating the labyrinth of the monstrous Minotaur, and his son Icarus, and how they both escaped from Crete by using feathers held together with wax until Icarus, ignoring his father's advice, flew too high and too close to the sun so the wax of his wings melted... is a type of Lucifer.

... again, I repeat: I'm sorry, what?

 

[Astrid]

And "Omphalos" isn't irrelevant?

Dunno, its why I asked.

You deliberately give detailed non responses.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

... I'm sorry, what? The story of how Daedalus, the man charged by king Minos of Crete with creating the labyrinth of the monstrous Minotaur, and his son Icarus, and how they both escaped from Crete by using feathers held together with wax until Icarus, ignoring his father's advice, flew too high and too close to the sun so the wax of his wings melted... is a type of Lucifer.

... again, I repeat: I'm sorry, what?

We don't know what intrigues occurred in the spirit world or who the characters were that may be represented in mythology, but Icarus does seem to represent the fall of Lucifer.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

We don't know what intrigues occurred behind the scenes of many events that took place in the spirit world.

So you have no real explanation except that you want to say that Icarus was a type of Lucifer, even through the mythology from Ancient Greece is pretty kind of clear cut that he did it because he was a young man (or boy or teen) who wanted to experience flight and fell into the age old trap of not listening to his father?

I repeat: I'm sorry, what?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Dunno, its why I asked.

You deliberately give detailed non responses.

I didn't get the connection.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So you have no real explanation except that you want to say that Icarus was a type of Lucifer, even through the mythology from Ancient Greece is pretty kind of clear cut that he did it because he was a young man (or boy or teen) who wanted to experience flight and fell into the age old trap of not listening to his father?

I repeat: I'm sorry, what?

Many believe it, what can I say?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Many believe it, what can I say?

Many people believe that Icarus was a type of Lucifer? Really?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Many people believe that Icarus was a type of Lucifer? Really?

There's even a play I think. Google it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

There's even a play I think. Google it.

Yeah, there's a play, but I fail to see how that supports what you say about Icarus being a type of Lucifer.
Unless you're referring to him as a 'fallen angel', rather than 'devil', although neither one really holds weight since it's made explicit in the Greek mythology that he was a human who had fake wings made from wax and feathers.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yeah, there's a play, but I fail to see how that supports what you say about Icarus being a type of Lucifer.
Unless you're referring to him as a 'fallen angel', rather than 'devil', although neither one really holds weight since it's made explicit in the Greek mythology that he was a human who had fake wings made from wax and feathers.

A lot of narratives require some fleshing out.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

A lot of narratives require some fleshing out.

Except it really doesn't, especially when the Greek myths are very plain that Icarus was a normal human who's father, a great inventor, crafted for him wings out of wax and feathers.
A lot of narratives stand on their own without needing some extra interplay.

So, I'll repeat again:
So, and this is not to try and trap but this is just more of a rhetorical question, with that fact in hand, we are left with two options. Either:
A: God's creation is right and it's the Biblical story that is wrong or,
B: Either the Bible is right and something is very wrong with God's creation.
Do you accept this as true for these two contradictory statements?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Except it really doesn't, especially when the Greek myths are very plain that Icarus was a normal human who's father, a great inventor, crafted for him wings out of wax and feathers.
A lot of narratives stand on their own without needing some extra interplay.

Your summary above is a perfect metaphor for the fall of Lucifer.

So, I'll repeat again:
So, and this is not to try and trap but this is just more of a rhetorical question, with that fact in hand, we are left with two options. Either:
A: God's creation is right and it's the Biblical story that is wrong or,
B: Either the Bible is right and something is very wrong with God's creation.
Do you accept this as true for these two contradictory statements?

As stated before I'm a Gap Theory believer. There is no conflict between the creation story and apparent age of the earth.

 

[Astrid]

Your summary above is a perfect metaphor for the fall of Lucifer.



As stated before I'm a Gap Theory believer. There is no conflict between the creation story and apparent age of the earth.

Apparent as in embedded age?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Your summary above is a perfect metaphor for the fall of Lucifer

Except that Lucifer was an angel, and Icarus was a HUMAN. Big difference. The fall and folly of a person is to be expected in all things, not in angels.

As stated before I'm a Gap Theory believer. There is no conflict between the creation story and apparent age of the earth.

I'm not asking for your person beliefs, I'm just asking to say if you accept what I said as true. It's a simple yes or no question.