One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

Jason0047 said:

Yet, do you not also believe that a believer will always sin as a part of this life?
How is that not a future admitance to doing evil?
How is that any different than the one sin Adam committed against God?
To admit that one will do evil is wrong.
It is having the wrong mindset about sin.

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Well, what do you believe?
Do you live a sinless life?
I don't know anyone other than Jesus Christ who has.
Paul who was certainly saved experienced the struggle with the flesh and the Spirit and I think the scriptures show that it is the condition believers deal until we are home with the Lord. It is probably best to have the mindset that is realistic and in agreement with the Bible.

For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Romans 7:15-25

Jason0047 said:

Let me cut to the chase here. Are you automatically saved if you sin? What if you refused to repent or to ask for forgiveness? Are you still saved?

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You are saved if you are sheep the Father gave the Son. None will be snatched.

The sheep hear His voice and follow Him.

None will be snatched away.

Concrete, bold colors, thick lines.

I haven't had the chance to read the whole thread, but God makes covenants, not contracts.

Jason0047 said:

No. You cannot be snatched out of the Father's hand IF.... IF you follow the Shepherd.

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The text does not say that nor imply that.

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they did not believe Him. He said they were not His sheep. Jesus said His sheep hear His Voice and follow them.

There are no sheep who do not follow Him. There is no 'If.'

There is something supernatural happening here. It has nothing to do with what the sheep can or cannot do but EVERYTHING to do with the Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep.

Jason0047 said:

If you are not following Jesus, then the condition of being snatched out of the Father's hand no longer applies.

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If you are not following Jesus then you are not sheep the Father has given to the Son.

If you believe a sheep can change to non-sheep then you do believe they were snatched from the Father.

Jason0047 said:

So there is a condition to being saved

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Never said such please stop saying such.

The only conditions to salvation were set before the foundations of the world. The shed Blood of Christ.

redleghunter said:

Therefore, we can only keep salvation if we are sinless?
Where is God in the sanctification process?


Therefore going to church on Sunday and Wednesday is an indication to God and man we have "died to Christ?" So if OSAS advocates do the same they have truly died to Christ too?


Where is God's will in all of this?


Therefore our works actual trump Christ's ? I'm sure you know He promised to give us the power to overcome?

But you will no doubt tell me again some people will not overcome. I agree, but the ones with Christ's promise will overcome.




1 Peter 1:3-14 does speak of "receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls."

However this is predicated with "who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

I think you are confusing the glorification of our bodies at the resurrection with justification and sanctification.



No, Paul, even in the YLT says past tense we are justified by faith not our law keeping or works:

Romans 5: Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
5 Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


The Pelagian model keeps God's Power, His Holy Spirit out of consideration.

What you have presented to me is people come to Christ and are born again. Then on their own by their works to keep justified.

Considering our works never justified us in the first place how can they keep a free gift from God? It's a valid logical question.

I will also note, a lot of what you commented on assumes eternal security is assumed in an antinomian construct. Which is a false dilemma because there can be and actually is another answer.
Here it is:

1.One can believe in eternal security because Christ and His apostles taught such. That those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. Only those who are born again will see the Kingdom.

2.They also taught us to live holy lives and love one another.

Here's the sobering truth. Those who do #2 can only be #1.

The above is clear.

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You are so entrenched in a Lutheran type mindset
.
For by Grace you are saved ...through..faith.
Faith is can action you do not only a thing you have.
Because GOd has made it possible through the cross to return to working righteousness into life .the opposite of working sin into death.
That is the gift.the undeserved opportunity to turn and recieve forgivness. Faith js the action you take because of what Christ has done.
You can waffle can't words and put it all in religious boxes until your religious boxes are stufed with dead papers.
But if you think for one moment the actions you take play no part then I advice you read the words of the head of the body JESUS in revelation chapter two and three where to every single congregation he gives assesnent (judgment) encouraging or rebuking them ALL based on one single factor. - thier WORKS.

GO READ it..test it out ...“i know thy works.. Andnhebis speaking to born again believers.

redleghunter said:

Therefore, we can only keep salvation if we are sinless?
Where is God in the sanctification process?


Therefore going to church on Sunday and Wednesday is an indication to God and man we have "died to Christ?" So if OSAS advocates do the same they have truly died to Christ too?


Where is God's will in all of this?


Therefore our works actual trump Christ's ? I'm sure you know He promised to give us the power to overcome?

But you will no doubt tell me again some people will not overcome. I agree, but the ones with Christ's promise will overcome.




1 Peter 1:3-14 does speak of "receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls."

However this is predicated with "who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

I think you are confusing the glorification of our bodies at the resurrection with justification and sanctification.



No, Paul, even in the YLT says past tense we are justified by faith not our law keeping or works:

Romans 5: Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
5 Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


The Pelagian model keeps God's Power, His Holy Spirit out of consideration.

What you have presented to me is people come to Christ and are born again. Then on their own by their works to keep justified.

Considering our works never justified us in the first place how can they keep a free gift from God? It's a valid logical question.

I will also note, a lot of what you commented on assumes eternal security is assumed in an antinomian construct. Which is a false dilemma because there can be and actually is another answer.
Here it is:

1.One can believe in eternal security because Christ and His apostles taught such. That those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. Only those who are born again will see the Kingdom.

2.They also taught us to live holy lives and love one another.

Here's the sobering truth. Those who do #2 can only be #1.

The above is clear.

Click to expand...

You are so entrenched in a Lutheran type mindset
.
For by Grace you are saved ...through..faith.
Faith is can action you do not only a thing you have.
Because GOd has made it possible through the cross to return to working righteousness into life .the opposite of working sin into death.
That is the gift.the undeserved opportunity to turn and recieve forgivness. Faith js the action you take because of what Christ has done.
You can waffle can't words and put it all in religious boxes until your religious boxes are stufed with dead papers.
But if you think for one moment the actions you take play no part then I advice you read the words of the head of the body JESUS in revelation chapter two and three where to every single congregation he gives assesnent (judgment) encouraging or rebuking them ALL based on one single factor. - thier WORKS.

GO READ it..test it out ...“i know thy works.. Andnhebis speaking to born again believers.

Adzinfi said:

You are so entrenched in a Lutheran type mindset
.
For by Grace you are saved ...through..faith.
Faith is can action you do not only a thing you have.
Because GOd has made it possible through the cross to return to working righteousness into life .the opposite of working sin into death.
That is the gift.the undeserved opportunity to turn and recieve forgivness. Faith js the action you take because of what Christ has done.
You can waffle can't words and put it all in religious boxes until your religious boxes are stufed with dead papers.
But if you think for one moment the actions you take play no part then I advice you read the words of the head of the body JESUS in revelation chapter two and three where to every single congregation he gives assesnent (judgment) encouraging or rebuking them ALL based on one single factor. - thier WORKS.

GO READ it..test it out ...“i know thy works.. Andnhebis speaking to born again believers.

Click to expand...

I'm not a Lutheran but will quote him since your understanding of what I posted is 180 degrees out from what I was getting at.

Faith is a living, bold trust in God’s grace, so certain of God’s favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God’s grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they’re smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.

Martin Luther's Definition of Faith by Martin Luther

redleghunter said:

5 Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

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By faith... Again
An action we do.

Exactly.Luther did not get everything right.in fact he got very little right.
He went on to be an avid hater of the Jews.
And you are right deep in his same error. He wanted the book of James excluded from the bible because he could not see that FAITH is an action you take based upon what you truly believe.
So if the action of obedience to JESUS is not taken .then you don't truly believe in him. And if you embark on obedience then turn back..same.

redleghunter said:

I'm not a Lutheran but will quote him since your understanding of what I posted is 180 degrees out from what I was getting at.

Faith is a living, bold trust in God’s grace, so certain of God’s favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it. Such confidence and knowledge of God’s grace makes you happy, joyful and bold in your relationship to God and all creatures. The Holy Spirit makes this happen through faith. Because of it, you freely, willingly and joyfully do good to everyone, serve everyone, suffer all kinds of things, love and praise the God who has shown you such grace. Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! Therefore, watch out for your own false ideas and guard against good-for-nothing gossips, who think they’re smart enough to define faith and works, but really are the greatest of fools. Ask God to work faith in you, or you will remain forever without faith, no matter what you wish, say or can do.

Martin Luther's Definition of Faith by Martin Luther

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redleghunter said:

Thanks Jerry.
Yet Jesus said not one sheep given Him by the Father would be plucked away.

So based on your quote above, and the Truth Christ teaches about the sheep, a wayward sheep will be confronted and repent. Maybe even dragged back.

However, we are mixing a Truth that Christ will not lose one sheep with your hypothetical of a backslider who never repents.

See the problem?

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redleghunter,

1. If you go back to John 8:31, Jesus says to those who believed on him, if ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.
The word (if) is a word of condition. This implies if we don't continue we won't be his disciples.
This is conditional eternal security not unconditional eternal security or OSAS.
In verse 33 they thought they were in bondage to no one and thought they were free because they were Abraham's physical seed.
Jesus said whoever commits sin is is the servant of sin.
V35; and the servant abideth not in the house forever but the son abideth forever.
He is talking to the Jews who believed on him and the reason that believer can't abide in the house forever is because he commits sin and is the servant of sin.

2. Go to John 10 about the sheep and the door of the sheep which is Jesus John 10:7.
The sheep didn't hear thieves and robbers.
If any man enters the door and enters in shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pastures v9.
The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy but Christ comes that they might have life and have it more abundantly v10.
The hireling comes along who is not the shepherd and the sheep don't belong to it sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and the wolf catches them and scatters the sheep.
The hireling don't care for the sheep so that is why they leave vs 12-13.
The good shepherd knows his sheep and they know his voice.
The shepherd lays down his life for his sheep.
The other sheep that Christ had were not of that fold but they willl hear his voice and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.
Historically, the house of Israel were the other sheep.
So this is about Christ death and resurrection and the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 being united as one. This caused a division among the Jews.
John 10:22 they go to the Feast of dedication. The Jews then wanted to know if he was the Christ.
V25 is talking to the unbelieving Jews.
They believe not because they are not his sheep v26.
His sheep hear his voice and he knows them and they follow him. These are the ones that believe.
He will give them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my Father's hand.
My Father which gave me them is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of the father's hand.
In this we have eternal security on the conditions of hearing his voice and following him.
When a believer is stays faithful to God no man can pluck him out of the father's hand.
At the same time a person themselves who believes can reject Christ and leave him.
God will not violate a person's free will choice to cooperate wth him.

3. As far as the apostasy issue you don't seem to understand.
We know believers can backslide from James for they err from the truth and he who converts that backslider will save a soul from death.
What happens in apostasy is a hardening of the heart till one justifies sin and thinks it's alright until they won't heed to God's called anymore.
Or another example is Matthew 12 which talks about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which has no forgiveness. It can be by words of condemnationjust like the Pharisees who called him a devil. And John says there is a sin unto death and one that is not unto death.
Christ will never lose a sheep if a person is faithful.
At the same time he will not violate man's freewill cooperation with him.
Galatians names the things of the flesh that those who commit them will inherit the Kingdom of God. Galataians 5:19-21. This was a warning to believers.
Galatians 6:7-8; a man reaps what he sows either to the Spirit or to the flesh. Flesh reaps corruption and the Spirit reaps life everlasting
This is why Paul said in verse 9 to those who believed: and let us not be weary in welldoing, for in due season we shall reap if we faint not.
One either yields themselves to satan or God.
Galatians 5:5-7 be not partakers with the wicked or else they could suffer the same fate as them. Jerry Kelso

Jason0047 said:

Well, actually it is a passage and not a verse (singular). Anyways, it is not what am I implying with that passage. It's... what does the passage plainly say?

Let's read it.

34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in" (Matthew 25:34-35).

41"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink"
(Matthew 25:41-42).

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46).

In the Parable of the Good Samaritan we learn that the identity of the neighbor who we are supposed to love as a part of the 2nd greatest commandment is the afflicted or the poor man (Luke 10:25-37).

1 John 4:8 says, "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Paul says the moral law (like do not murder, do not covet, do not steal) is loving your neighbor (Romans 13:8-9). So if you break the moral law, you are not loving your neighbor and 1 John 4:8 says if you do not love, you do not know God because God is love.

Loving your neighbor would also include loving your brothers and sisters, too.
But if any man hates his brother and says they love God is lying. For it its written,

'If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" (1 John 4:20).

In fact, it is a salvation issue.

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

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Love is a salvation issue because He first loved us enabling us to love Him. (the first set of commandments) and loving neighbour as loving self is a progressive learning. Because security of salvation is found in that it could be said to be the root of the downpayment of the inheritance.

Adzinfi said:

Exactly.Luther did not get everything right.in fact he got very little right.
He went on to be an avid hater of the Jews.
And you are right deep in his same error. He wanted the book of James excluded from the bible because he could not see that FAITH is an action you take based upon what you truly believe.
So if the action of obedience to JESUS is not taken .then you don't truly believe in him. And if you embark on obedience then turn back..same.

Click to expand...

I think we reached the point where hurling insults and bearing false witness makes conversing un-fruitful.

jerry kelso said:

redleghunter,

1. If you go back to John 8:31, Jesus says to those who believed on him, if ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.
The word (if) is a word of condition. This implies if we don't continue we won't be his disciples.
This is conditional eternal security not unconditional eternal security or OSAS.
In verse 33 they thought they were in bondage to no one and thought they were free because they were Abraham's physical seed.
Jesus said whoever commits sin is is the servant of sin.
V35; and the servant abideth not in the house forever but the son abideth forever.
He is talking to the Jews who believed on him and the reason that believer can't abide in the house forever is because he commits sin and is the servant of sin.

2. Go to John 10 about the sheep and the door of the sheep which is Jesus John 10:7.
The sheep didn't hear thieves and robbers.
If any man enters the door and enters in shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pastures v9.
The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy but Christ comes that they might have life and have it more abundantly v10.
The hireling comes along who is not the shepherd and the sheep don't belong to it sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and the wolf catches them and scatters the sheep.
The hireling don't care for the sheep so that is why they leave vs 12-13.
The good shepherd knows his sheep and they know his voice.
The shepherd lays down his life for his sheep.
The other sheep that Christ had were not of that fold but they willl hear his voice and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.
Historically, the house of Israel were the other sheep.
So this is about Christ death and resurrection and the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 being united as one. This caused a division among the Jews.
John 10:22 they go to the Feast of dedication. The Jews then wanted to know if he was the Christ.
V25 is talking to the unbelieving Jews.
They believe not because they are not his sheep v26.
His sheep hear his voice and he knows them and they follow him. These are the ones that believe.
He will give them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my Father's hand.
My Father which gave me them is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of the father's hand.
In this we have eternal security on the conditions of hearing his voice and following him.
When a believer is stays faithful to God no man can pluck him out of the father's hand.
At the same time a person themselves who believes can reject Christ and leave him.
God will not violate a person's free will choice to cooperate wth him.

3. As far as the apostasy issue you don't seem to understand.
We know believers can backslide from James for they err from the truth and he who converts that backslider will save a soul from death.
What happens in apostasy is a hardening of the heart till one justifies sin and thinks it's alright until they won't heed to God's called anymore.
Or another example is Matthew 12 which talks about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which has no forgiveness. It can be by words of condemnationjust like the Pharisees who called him a devil. And John says there is a sin unto death and one that is not unto death.
Christ will never lose a sheep if a person is faithful.
At the same time he will not violate man's freewill cooperation with him.
Galatians names the things of the flesh that those who commit them will inherit the Kingdom of God. Galataians 5:19-21. This was a warning to believers.
Galatians 6:7-8; a man reaps what he sows either to the Spirit or to the flesh. Flesh reaps corruption and the Spirit reaps life everlasting
This is why Paul said in verse 9 to those who believed: and let us not be weary in welldoing, for in due season we shall reap if we faint not.
One either yields themselves to satan or God.
Galatians 5:5-7 be not partakers with the wicked or else they could suffer the same fate as them. Jerry Kelso

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We either hear His voice or we don't. It's concrete and monolithic. It's not a sometimes or maybe.

I'm actually presenting a more stringent and concrete model.

Others are making things conditional which Christ did not.

jerry kelso said:

redleghunter,

1. If you go back to John 8:31, Jesus says to those who believed on him, if ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.
The word (if) is a word of condition. This implies if we don't continue we won't be his disciples.
This is conditional eternal security not unconditional eternal security or OSAS.
In verse 33 they thought they were in bondage to no one and thought they were free because they were Abraham's physical seed.
Jesus said whoever commits sin is is the servant of sin.
V35; and the servant abideth not in the house forever but the son abideth forever.
He is talking to the Jews who believed on him and the reason that believer can't abide in the house forever is because he commits sin and is the servant of sin.

2. Go to John 10 about the sheep and the door of the sheep which is Jesus John 10:7.
The sheep didn't hear thieves and robbers.
If any man enters the door and enters in shall be saved and shall go in and out and find pastures v9.
The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy but Christ comes that they might have life and have it more abundantly v10.
The hireling comes along who is not the shepherd and the sheep don't belong to it sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and the wolf catches them and scatters the sheep.
The hireling don't care for the sheep so that is why they leave vs 12-13.
The good shepherd knows his sheep and they know his voice.
The shepherd lays down his life for his sheep.
The other sheep that Christ had were not of that fold but they willl hear his voice and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.
Historically, the house of Israel were the other sheep.
So this is about Christ death and resurrection and the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 being united as one. This caused a division among the Jews.
John 10:22 they go to the Feast of dedication. The Jews then wanted to know if he was the Christ.
V25 is talking to the unbelieving Jews.
They believe not because they are not his sheep v26.
His sheep hear his voice and he knows them and they follow him. These are the ones that believe.
He will give them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my Father's hand.
My Father which gave me them is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of the father's hand.
In this we have eternal security on the conditions of hearing his voice and following him.
When a believer is stays faithful to God no man can pluck him out of the father's hand.
At the same time a person themselves who believes can reject Christ and leave him.
God will not violate a person's free will choice to cooperate wth him.

3. As far as the apostasy issue you don't seem to understand.
We know believers can backslide from James for they err from the truth and he who converts that backslider will save a soul from death.
What happens in apostasy is a hardening of the heart till one justifies sin and thinks it's alright until they won't heed to God's called anymore.
Or another example is Matthew 12 which talks about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which has no forgiveness. It can be by words of condemnationjust like the Pharisees who called him a devil. And John says there is a sin unto death and one that is not unto death.
Christ will never lose a sheep if a person is faithful.
At the same time he will not violate man's freewill cooperation with him.
Galatians names the things of the flesh that those who commit them will inherit the Kingdom of God. Galataians 5:19-21. This was a warning to believers.
Galatians 6:7-8; a man reaps what he sows either to the Spirit or to the flesh. Flesh reaps corruption and the Spirit reaps life everlasting
This is why Paul said in verse 9 to those who believed: and let us not be weary in welldoing, for in due season we shall reap if we faint not.
One either yields themselves to satan or God.
Galatians 5:5-7 be not partakers with the wicked or else they could suffer the same fate as them. Jerry Kelso

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Yup

redleghunter said:

We either hear His voice or we don't. It's concrete and monolithic. It's not a sometimes or maybe.

I'm actually presenting a more stringent and concrete model.

Others are making things conditional which Christ did not.

Click to expand...

Yes he did.
He presents us the God news then tells us what to DO
.salvation is fully condtional upon obedience to the Good news. This is why there is dire warning to those who “disobey the Gospel“ the good news is both news of what God has done for us And instructions on wbatvwe must do to enter into salvation.
. disobedience is sin and what led us to death.
Obedience leads us to life .
We are freely gifted the opurtunity to turn from disobedience back to obedience and live.

Not just beginning in Obedience but continuing increasingly(sanctification) in it .

But if a person turns back and continues in disobedience week after week,they are not and will not be saved.

Greetings,
The problem I see in this thread is lack of understanding of the scriptures.

To those who use the scriptures saying, can not be plucked out of my hand etc must Grasp this is directed to those Who are Walking in His Ways. Those who truly seek to follow God's word as doers of His word.

We need to Properly Divide God's word and understand how the scriptures go together.

We have an enemy the devil who comes to steal, kill and destroy.

We are told to Stand Against the wiles of the devil. That's deception so finely tuned towards each individual.

Look at Hebrews 6. Using TLB for simplicity.

There is no use trying to bring you back to the Lord again if you have once understood the Good News and tasted for yourself the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 and know how good the Word of God is, and felt the mighty powers of the world to come,
6 and then have turned against God. You cannot bring yourself to repent again if you have nailed the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to mocking and to public shame.

This is a Born again believer who through deception began to slowly fall away from the ways of God.
May have even fought the good fight of faith for awhile but over time began to listen and think about things the devil had been planting in their thinking.

Now as time goes on, they begin to push away the Holy Spirit over and over hardening their hearts towards God.
Eventually NOT wanting anything to do with God or His ways anymore.

This becomes very dangerous because God won't force you to stay. There can come a time when the Holy Spirit will leave.

That leaves one vacant for the enemy the devil to once again be in the house if you will.
Now the enemy will try and take you out quickly because you have no hope of redemption any longer.

Unless this person comes to himself and repents, which is just about impossible, they have LOST THEIR SALVATION.

Key.....they gave it up. Walked away. Threw it away.

This is why this belief of once saved always saved is dangerous and a lie.
It gives leverage to our enemy in slowly pulling one further and further away from the Lord.

Blessings
FCJ

So, we are saved by works? Why the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, then? If you are good enough to save yourselves, there is no need to do anything but obey Jesus’ commands.

What sins lead to loss of salvation? Is it just big sins, or do little ones count as well? How about sins of thought and sins of omission? You live a perfect life but sin in the moment right before you die, are you going to Hell?

Sounds like the opposite of saved by grace through faith to me.

InterestedApologist said:

What sins lead to loss of salvation?

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What sends a person to Hell?
Why rejecting Christ.

What causes loss of salvation?
Once again, by continually rejecting Christ and hardening your heart towards Him.
(Referring to a believer here)