One question about salvation

[ardmore]

I have one question.

1. 
   Saying people A believes he believes in Jesus but he doesn't understand "Predestination" or "Golden Chain", can he be saved?

 

[Hentenza]

I have one question.

1. Saying people A believes he believes in Jesus but he doesn't understand "Predestination" or "Golden Chain", can he be saved?

Yes.

ETA: Welcome to CF!!!!

 

[ardmore]

The reason I asked because in a web discussion forum. A guy who claims a Calvinist said: If you don't believe "Predestination" or "Golden Chain", how can you assure your belief? The conclusion is if you don't believe "Predestination", then you go to the HELL.

It stirred a lot of angry in that forum.
I believe that I am a Calvinist 5 points and I do believe "Golden Chain". I think that the guy's theory is bad.

 

[hedrick]

The reason I asked because in a web discussion forum. A guy who claims a Calvinist said: If you don't believe "Predestination" or "Golden Chain", how can you assure your belief? The conclusion is if you don't believe "Predestination", then you go to the HELL.

It stirred a lot of angry in that forum.
I believe that I am a Calvinist 5 points and I do believe "Golden Chain". I think that the guy's theory is bad.

I doubt that he meant that non-Calvinists are going to hell.

He's talking about what's called "assurance of salvation." This isn't whether people are saved, but how you can have confidence that you're saved. Many Calvinists feel that only based on the idea of predestination can anyone be confident that they're saved. Without predestination, salvation depends upon something about them, and any honest person realizes that they've fallen short.

This is actually a fairly complicated topic. If you're interested in knowing more, we can talk about it. But my point is that "how can you assure your belief" is probably not about whether you're saved but about whether you can feel confident that you're saved.

 

[ardmore]

His original statement:

It is undoubtedly that who don't believe TULIP can't be saved. The answer is very simple, because [B][SIZE=5]Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again"[/SIZE][/B].[

Again, this morning he emphasized

Those reject TULIP can not be saved [B]absolutely[/B]!

Sorry I couldn't provide the links, because they are on the non-English forum. If you know Chinese fonts, I can give you.

Please give me an answer.

 

[Hentenza]

Hi Ardmore,

There are many believers worldwide that are not taught the finer points of theology but are ardent believers in Christ. Secondly, salvation is by the grace of God through faith in the son not by what folks know theologically. The poster in that other site is going well beyond sola fide and, frankly, is making judgments that are not his purview but of the purview of God. Salvation is of the Lord.

 

[Foghorn]

I have one question.

1. Saying people A believes he believes in Jesus but he doesn't understand "Predestination" or "Golden Chain", can he be saved?

Yes.

 

[dhh712]

I have one question.

1. 
   Saying people A believes he believes in Jesus but he doesn't understand "Predestination" or "Golden Chain", can he be saved?

Yes. It is not understanding theology that saves, but only faith upon Christ which does that. Now I think it helps a lot if someone has a proper understanding of the doctrines which are taught in the Bible (though even this does not maintain a person's faith--only God does that). Personally, I believe Presbyterianism (the reformed branches) have the correct interpretation of the Bible (the most correct which can be achieved here on earth). I don't think that matters at all in terms of my salvation however, to have that specific understanding of theology.

One speculation I have (which remains a speculation since I haven't looked into it) is that a good percentage of people fall away from the faith because they have not been instructed correctly in the doctrine (that would be the second cause--the first cause of course is that God did not elect them). That is not to say that those who receive the correct doctrine never fall away (I also speculate that those who were brought to faith by God under the reformed denominations--since it is my impression that their interpretation of Scripture uses much reason and logic--received an understanding of that faith based on reason and logic and have not actually had an encounter with the holiness of God, as they couldn't or they wouldn't have fallen completely away. They could of course be existing in a state where it only seems they have fallen away, but God can if it is His will, bring them back to them).

Regardless of this, I definitely feel that only the proper and correct doctrines of the Bible should be taught [yet I still maintain that the elect exist even in the churches with the false doctrines (that is to say, other doctrines that are false other than the one that must be true and that is that Jesus is the only way to the Father and that we must repent of our sins and believe upon Him)--as long as they believe upon Christ for their salvation, and only God can know this, that is the only thing that matters. Correct understanding of theology does not save and I hold to the Westminster Standards that there is no one true church except that of the invisible, catholic church]. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have any of the false doctrines in the church; but then it isn't up to me it is up to God.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Absolutely, YES!

Our faith and security rest in what God has done in Christ, not our complete understanding of it.

 

[bfdd6988]

"All I know is that I'm a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior" (John Newton). That's about the bare bones minimum of what the sinner needs to believe.