One Hundred Different Doctrines of Salvation

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
BibleBeliever1611 said:
Why can't the gospel be simple?
Ultimately the gospel is simple.
True.

Repent of your sins ( that is change how you live ) ask Jesus to save you and go tell others.
This isn't either the gospel nor simple.

Repenting of one's sins saves no one. The Greek word means to "change the mind". That is abolutely necessary in order to come to the understanding that you are a sinner in need of saving, and Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is who died for your sins and will save all who believe in Him for salvation.

Asking Jesus to save you also fails. No verse says this. The gift of salvation/eternal life is ALWAYS based on faith in Christ. Not requesting anything. Trusting Christ is the answer.

And, to go and tell others never saves the one who goes. This is a work. There's no faith in this. Yes, believers are expected to share their faith, but no one gets saved by preaching to others.

We make it completed by trying to find loopholes, shortcuts and cheats to make our lives easier.
I guess you probably means "complicated" rather than "completed".

However, to the question of what one MUST DO to be saved, I think Paul''s answer is clear and simple.

Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Plain and simple. Salvation is for those who believe in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Asking Jesus to save you also fails. No verse says this. The gift of salvation/eternal life is ALWAYS based on faith in Christ. Not requesting anything. Trusting Christ is the answer.

In practice terms anyone coming to faith in Jesus does what I outlined.
They are sorry for their sins and want to change. They are expressing faith in Jesus by asking him into their life and they are showing their obedience by telling others.

Yes this is all faith, believe in what Jesus has done.

I'm sure you have been to Billy Graham or some other mission and seen people going forward because they have faith in Jesus and I'm equally sure that even though your church was told that 'x' number of people made professions of faith and live in your churches area, none have been seen and attempts to follow them up get no where.

Yes we have to have that faith/believe, but it is always a practical faith that works in our lives.
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
In practice terms anyone coming to faith in Jesus does what I outlined.
I pointed out the truth.

They are sorry for their sins and want to change.
This has nothing to do with salvation. You are inserting emotions into salvation, but you can't find any verse to support your claim. Repenting isn't an emotion. Unfortunately, there has been a lot of false teaching about it.

They are expressing faith in Jesus by asking him into their life and they are showing their obedience by telling others.
Again, error. There are no verses about asking Jesus into their hearts. That wording comes from a total misunderstanding of Rev 3:20. It's about fellowship, not salvation.

Yes this is all faith, believe in what Jesus has done.
But you've added a whole lot more, which the Bible doesn't.

I'm sure you have been to Billy Graham or some other mission and seen people going forward because they have faith in Jesus and I'm equally sure that even though your church was told that 'x' number of people made professions of faith and live in your churches area, none have been seen and attempts to follow them up get no where.
I'm not sure what your point is.

Yes we have to have that faith/believe, but it is always a practical faith that works in our lives.
Again, you're just adding works to salvation, which the Bible doesn't do.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,720
6,139
Massachusetts
✟586,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Many people teach that once a person is saved, they must turn from sins and begin to live a holy life as a result of salvation.
First, I think of how our Apostle Paul says we "first trusted in Christ" > in Ephesians 1:12. So, getting saved includes first trusting in Jesus. And if we trust Jesus, we have all which God's word says for us to do. Trusting Him includes submitting to Jesus. And Colossians 3:15 says >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

To me, this means our basic Christian calling > "in one body" > is to personally submit to how our Heavenly Father rules each of us, in our "hearts", this says. So, this is a basic, I would say. But ones seem like all they give attention to is how much sinning one can do, and what are the sins to stop doing. But they say not a word about trusting and obeying Jesus in His own peace, with His personal guiding and creativity for how to love any and all people.

If we obey God in His peace, the almighty power of God's peace will take care of how much a person drinks, for one thing. And God's word says that if we obey how His word says to pray > "the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

So, yes we need to give attention to what sins are, but also devote attention to submitting to how our Father cares for us and guides us and protects us in His own peace. He is almighty; so His peace is almighty to guard our minds and hearts.

So, I would make sure this gets attention.

And there are sins the Ten Commandments do not clearly talk about, and these sins can degrade us from loving and from sharing with God in His own peace.

arguing and complaining > Philippians 2:13-16

unforgiveness > Mark 11:25

"bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking" "malice" > Ephesians 4:31-32

And there are things the New Testament says about how to personally relate with one another as God's family, including 1 Peter 5:3, Ephesians 4:2, and James 1:19-20.

They say that you don't need to be perfect, but you must at least turn from some of your sins because God made you a new creature.
Ephesians 2:1 says God made us "alive". We were love-dead; our pleasure seeking and substance abuse was because we were not alive in God's love. And Acts 26:18 shows that in being ministered salvation, people are turned "from the power of Satan to God". So, getting saved includes all which God Himself does in a person, to change him or her from Satan's power, and make the person alive in love (Romans 5:5) and how we are personally guided by our Father in this love.

So, our attention needs to always be to personally submitting to how God rules us and protects us in His love and joy and peace. How many sins we can get away with is not where our attention belongs, I would consider > that could be a decoy trick to keep our attention elsewhere.

Trust God to do all He knows He wants with us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BibleBeliever1611

Active Member
May 3, 2020
391
182
28
Vantaa
✟80,648.00
Country
Finland
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
While we are initially and ultimately (foundationally) saved by God's grace, we also need to enter Sanctification as a part of the salvation process (after we are saved by God's grace). For...

  1. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

  2. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

  3. A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

  4. Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

  5. Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

  6. We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).

  7. Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).

  8. Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

  9. Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

  10. Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).

  11. If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).

  12. Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

If James 2 was teaching that we are justified before God by works and not by faith only, then there would be a contradiction in the Bible. Many verses like John 3:16 teaches that we are justified by faith only. John 3:16 doesn't mention repentance, turning from sin, turning over a new leaf, etc. It only mentions believing.

Many people have faith but not works. John 3:16 teaches that they are saved, but the works-salvation interpretation of James 2:24 teaches that they are not saved. See the contradiction? One of them has to be false.

What it's really saying is that we are justified by works before other people. You can't see into other people's hearts and see what they believe. That's why you need some evidence from their works.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Many people teach that once a person is saved, they must turn from sins and begin to live a holy life as a result of salvation. They say that you don't need to be perfect, but you must at least turn from some of your sins because God made you a new creature.

But here's the problem with this. Whenever you ask "How much?", they never give a clear answer. And now you could have all kinds of different degrees and types of this teaching. For example, imagine that a drunkard gets saved. Now the question is, how much does he need to turn from the sin of drinking alcohol if he is truly saved and a new creature in Christ? He could decrease his drinking by 1%. Some people would probably say that that's not enough. There needs to be more evidence of salvation. So he might decrease his drinking by 10%. Or maybe he needs to decrease it by 11%, 12%, 13%, etc. You get the idea. So now there are literally one hundred different versions of this doctrine. The extreme from of this doctrine would say that the person must decrease his drinking by 99.99% or otherwise he didn't truly get saved. But he doesn't need to be perfect, because he still has that 0.01% of his old sinful habits in his life. Maybe he still drinks alcohol once in five years.

Can you see how bizarre and weird and stupid this is? Why can't the gospel be simple?


First, I would remind that it does not matter what people say,
only what the Bible teaches... and the only measure of Biblical
Truth is harmony with ALL RELATED Scriptures. Most heresies
can harmonize with one-or-two-or-three Scriptures... which is
why the measure of Biblical Truth is harmony will ALL Scripture.


I see your question in two parts:


First, what does salvation consist of? The Bible is clear that
salvation involves an Atonement for EACH of our sins, and the
"fruit" of that is "sanctification" in the Believer's life... for whom
God "elected" He also "predestinated" to be conformed into the
image of Jesus (which is the sanctification of the elect) and whom
He "predestinated" He also "called/draws" and them He also both
"justifies" and "glorifies". [Rom 8:28-30]


However, the Bible ALSO teaches that the sanctification of the
elect is DIFFERENT with each person... some produce "fruit" of
thirty-fold, some of sixty-fold and others one hundred-fold".
And, I see this as the heart of your question:


Mat 13:8-9
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit,
some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Instead of your example of drinking, let's use the example
or murder. Is decreasing your murders by 1% or 10% or
50% show the "fruit" of salvation... of course the answer
is NO. The Bible is clear that no murderer has eternal life.
And so, while the sanctification of each elect will be unique,
there are some passages that qualify who will NOT enter
into eternal life. Incorporating these passages gives us a
much better sense of what TRUE sanctification looks like.


The first set of verses below talk about walking in the Spirit,
what that looks like. The second set of verses talks about
the lifestyle of those who are NOT SAVED. These provide
us with a look at the "fruit" of those who are saved, and
walk after the Spirit and the "fruit" of those who are NOT
saved and walk after the flesh. Now, does this mean that
a "child of God" does not fall into a sin? Of course not...
Rather, it means no child of God has a lifestyle of sin.

-------------------

Rom 8:1-5
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are
in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free
from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in
that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in
the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk
not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the
flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the
Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Gal 5:16-18
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust
of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit
against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so
that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the
Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Eph 2:2-3
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of
this world, according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and
of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others.

----------------------

Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry,
witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time
past, that they which do such things shall not inherit
the kingdom of God
.


1Co 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit
the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators,
nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of
themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the
kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are
washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the
name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Rev 22:15
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Many people have faith but not works. John 3:16 teaches that they are saved, but the works-salvation interpretation of James 2:24 teaches that they are not saved. See the contradiction? One of them has to be false.

What it's really saying is that we are justified by works before other people. You can't see into other people's hearts and see what they believe. That's why you need some evidence from their works.


No, James 2:24 (and many other verses) are saying when a man
does not show the "fruit" of being saved... that is evidence that he
is not saved.

And I would remind that, "good works" includes no heresies
(Galatians 5 lists heresies as the "fruit" of unsaved men). Which
is why we see many Moslims and Buddhists and Hindus and
Atheists and Agnostics which are VERY MORAL people...
showing some "fruit" you would expect from a Christian.
And yet they are lost because they have no Savior.

You must be careful when you say "we can't see into the
hearts of other people to know if they are saved". The Bible
is clear that we CAN and MUST identify the "fruit" of saved
"wheat" in the church - and unsaved "tares" in the church
because we are COMMANDED to expel the unsaved tares
from the church. The Bible does not teach not to judge...
it teaches to judge righteously.

.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Ephesians 2:1 says God made us "alive". We were love-dead;



No, that is not what Ephesians 2:1 says at all.
We (saved wheat) were not "love-dead" we were
SPIRITUALLY DEAD in our "trespasses and sins"


All men are born spiritually dead because of original sin.
Which is why all men must be "born again" so that our soul
is translated from that spiritual DEATH into LIFE.


Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were
dead in trespasses and sins;


While it is true that we are commanded to "love" all men,
in that we want the best for them and preach the Gospel
of repentance to them. However, the Bible also teaches
we are to reject those who reject Jesus and the Gospel...
knowing they are like those in Sodom and Gomorrha


Mar 6:11-12
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you,
when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet
for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall
be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of
judgment, than for that city. And they went out, and preached
that men should repent.


.
 
Upvote 0

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
arguing and complaining > Philippians 2:13-16
unforgiveness > Mark 11:25
"bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking" "malice" > Ephesians 4:31-32
And there are things the New Testament says about how to personally relate with one another as God's family, including 1 Peter 5:3, Ephesians 4:2, and James 1:19-20.

.


Understanding that the Bible
separates all men into three (3) groups:

(1) The saved "wheat/sheep" in church, sown by God
(2) The unsaved "tares/goats" in church, sown by Satan
(3) The lost souls OUTSIDE the church; like Moslems, Buddhists,
Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, Pagans, Satanists, etc...

Would you agree the PEOPLE you mention above are ONLY
those in group (#1)?

.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,720
6,139
Massachusetts
✟586,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ephesians 2:1 says God made us "alive". We were love-dead; our pleasure seeking and substance abuse was because we were not alive in God's love.
No, that is not what Ephesians 2:1 says at all.
We (saved wheat) were not "love-dead" we were
SPIRITUALLY DEAD in our "trespasses and sins"
I mean we were not alive in God's love. If a person is spiritually dead, the person is not alive in God's love which is spiritual in the Holy Spirit. This is what I mean. It is written for us who are Jesus people >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, if Jesus has saved us and turned us "from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18), then now we are with God in His love with His life. Or else, in sin a person is love-dead . . . not alive with God in His love.

And God's love is all-loving.

But there is unscriptural loving . . . picking and choosing who we want and whom we judge to be good enough for us to love; and to this Jesus says >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

So @BibleBeliever1611 > if we have trusted in Jesus who is all-loving and expects us to love any and all people, then we trust how Jesus loves, by leaving behind our selfish ways of loving only or mainly ones we hope to use for what we want.

"But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (2 Timothy 5:6)

So, if a person lives in intimacy with pleasure feelings, instead of being submissive to God in His own love's peace, this is an example of who I mean by a love-dead person . . . maybe having some sort of love for the pleasure and ones he or she uses, but not being alive in all-loving love and submitting to our Father in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

Instead, we need to submit to God, in His peace and how He has us sharing as family while caring in prayer with hope for any and all people > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). And our Apostle Paul does say to care in prayer for any and all people > to do this > "first of all" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4.

Saul was rejecting the Gospel, before he became our Apostle Paul. But later yes Paul said he would turn from the Jews who rejected God's word, and he would go to the Gentiles.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

5thKingdom

Newbie
Mar 23, 2015
3,698
219
✟35,230.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I mean we were not alive in God's love. If a person is spiritually dead, the person is not alive in God's love which is spiritual in the Holy Spirit. This is what I mean. It is written for us who are Jesus people >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, if Jesus has saved us and turned us "from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18), then now we are with God in His love with His life. Or else, in sin a person is love-dead . . . not alive with God in His love.

And God's love is all-loving.

But there is unscriptural loving . . . picking and choosing who we want and whom we judge to be good enough for us to love; and to this Jesus says >

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

So @BibleBeliever1611 > if we have trusted in Jesus who is all-loving and expects us to love any and all people, then we trust how Jesus loves, by leaving behind our selfish ways of loving only or mainly ones we hope to use for what we want.

"But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (2 Timothy 5:6)

So, if a person lives in intimacy with pleasure feelings, instead of being submissive to God in His own love's peace, this is an example of who I mean by a love-dead person . . . maybe having some sort of love for the pleasure and ones he or she uses, but not being alive in all-loving love and submitting to our Father in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

Instead, we need to submit to God, in His peace and how He has us sharing as family while caring in prayer with hope for any and all people > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). And our Apostle Paul does say to care in prayer for any and all people > to do this > "first of all" > 1 Timothy 2:1-4.

Saul was rejecting the Gospel, before he became our Apostle Paul. But later yes Paul said he would turn from the Jews who rejected God's word, and he would go to the Gentiles.


The point is you are ADDING to what the Bible says.
It never talks about being "love-dead" it say people
are born SPIRITUALLY DEAD...

You speak of IF people do this and IF people do that...
But the Bible says that NO MAN will seek God and NO MAN
will come to Christ unless the Father "draws" them.

True repentance (of any kind) is the RESULT (not the cause)
of being "indwelt".

.
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I said:
There are no verses about asking Jesus into their hearts

I said
you're just adding works to salvation, which the Bible doesn't
Do read what I write if you are going to criticize.
There was no criticism. I pointed out FACTS. And if there were verses about asking Jesus into their hearts, why didn't you just quote them and prove me wrong right now?

Because there are no such verses.

These are two examples of your not reading what I have written.
All you've got so far are claims. Where is your evidence that proves me wrong?

Your posts very clearly indicate that you think works are necessary, along with faith, for salvation. And that is what I was responding to.
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Your posts very clearly indicate that you think works are necessary, along with faith, for salvation. And that is what I was responding to.

All I said is that faith is practical and is worked out in one's life.
You may believe that someone can say I believe in Jesus and they go on to live an unchanged life as a Christian.
I believe the Bible teaches that those who accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour, who have repented of their sins, go on to live a life of obedience to Jesus's commands.
This is an active life of good works as soon says prepared in advance for the man of God.
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,720
6,139
Massachusetts
✟586,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You speak of IF people do this and IF people do that...
But the Bible says that NO MAN will seek God and NO MAN
will come to Christ unless the Father "draws" them.
"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

So, I mean how God has a person do what the person is told to do.

"But those who seek the LORD shall not lack any good thing." (in Psalm 34:10)

This, then, means how God in a person has the person seeking Him. I understand this means to submit to how God in us personally rules us in His own peace.

And we need to be spiritually alive, by being alive in His love, so we can do this.

It is like how first light reaches a plant, then the plant seeks the light by growing toward the light.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
All I said is that faith is practical and is worked out in one's life.
No, you posted a lot more than that. You clearly indicated the recessity of works for salvation.

You may believe that someone can say I believe in Jesus and they go on to live an unchanged life as a Christian.
I'd like to clear something up right now. I NEVER EVER talk about what someone SAYS.

I ALWAYS emphasize what a person BELIEVES. That is the requirement for salvation; to trust what God says about having salvation.

The 2nd soil "believed for a while" Luke 8:13. Those who believe possess eternal life 0 John 5:24, 6:47. Jesus gives the gift of eternal life - John 10:28a. The result of being given eternal life is never perishing - John 10:28b.

I believe the Bible teaches that those who accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour, who have repented of their sins, go on to live a life of obedience to Jesus's commands.[/QUOTE]
Could you then explain WHY there are so many commands to believers to be holy and blameless. You've phrased this as though "living a life of obedienced" is automatic, or guaranteed. So please provide ANY verse that teaches this.

This is an active life of good works as soon says prepared in advance for the man of God.
Please fix this sentence and re-post. "works as soon says prepared" doesn't make sense.
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You clearly indicated the recessity of works for salvation.

If you had read what I wrote you would have seen that works always follows from being saved, never part of the salvation process.

ALWAYS emphasize what a person BELIEVES.

Amazing you know by looking, smell or some other method what somebody believes without having to listen to what they say or how they behave.


I think this conversation has run its course.
 
Upvote 0

FreeGrace2

Senior Veteran
Nov 15, 2012
20,401
1,703
USA
✟184,557.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
If you had read what I wrote you would have seen that works always follows from being saved, never part of the salvation process.
I did read what you wrote. Where is ANY verse that says that works "always follows" from being saved. That is merely a Calvinist talking point. Not found in Scripture.

News flash. If your claim were true, there would be NO NEED of any command or encouragement for believers to produce works. So, the very presence of the many such commands and encouragement proves your theory wrong.

otoh, such commands to those who only think they are saved doesn't work, because they aren't saved.

I said:
"ALWAYS emphasize what a person BELIEVES."
Amazing you know by looking, smell or some other method what somebody believes without having to listen to what they say or how they behave.
Of course I don't know who has believed by looking or smelling, or by any other method. And that wasn't even the point. What I was pointing out is what is NECESSARY for someone to be saved. Not what they say they did, or by any other method. So I'm NOT judging anyone. I'm simply pointing out the FACTS.

Too bad you missed it by a mile.

I think this conversation has run its course.
Out of ammo already?
 
Upvote 0