One horrendous doctrine

[DArceri]

There are measures. I have for example provided a scripture set from Romans 11 where "all of Israel" shall be saved, even to those who were "made enemies" of the Gospel by Gods placement of a "spirit of stupor" upon them in OUR behalves, and that would be "post" death salvation. This would be imho at least one clear cut exception to both determinism and freewill positions, unless of course you accept that exception... And there are many many other such exceptions.

In nearly all cases, determinism attempts to "throttle down" the terms "world" and "all men" to only the elect, but of course Paul extends salvation much further, here for example:

1 Tim. 4:
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 These things command and teach.

Here Paul delineates that God IS the Saviour of all men and distinguishes "them" from the believers.

There are many many more in this direction as well.

enjoy!

squint

Luke 13

Repent or Perish

2And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way?

3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in
Jerusalem?

5No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."



The Narrow Door

22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23And someone said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?"

And he said to them, 24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

 

[squint]

Luke 13

Repent or Perish

2And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way?

3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

What makes you so sure that Jesus was speaking only to mankind here? We already know that God was in Christ, reconciling the "world" unto Himself, NOT COUNTING sins against them.

Perhaps the "sinners" in the flesh are not seen clearly by "most?"

They have a "choice" as well, and they WILL resist "everytime."

5No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Let's also not mistake perishing as it pertains to the flesh the same as eternal torture.

We've already done this drill:

Romans 6:7
-anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

It would appear to me that the Tower has already killed us because of SIN. We are to account our flesh in THAT WAY because of the presence of SIN which actions are OF THE DEVIL.

IF and when you start "dividing" you and your fellow man along these scriptural lines, you will stop blaming and accusing your fellow man, and will actually be "enabled" to both love THEM and remain in proper judgment against the other parties to this dance, the devil. Til then you have what I call a typical mixture and misidentification of the parties. I don't hold it against YOU as Gods child.

22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23And someone said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?"

And he said to them, 24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

The devils in the flesh who are the CAUSE of sin will NEVER get in, nor will they understand LOVE, MERCY OR FORGIVENESS to our fellow man.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Let's not mistake what we are bound with to be the "same as" those ALL who will receive DIVINE MERCY.

I don't have a problem with ANY of the damnation scriptures, but I am very aware that there is more in the bodies of mankind than JUST THEM. If you don't get it, then you are not slated by God to understand this.

To then keep trying to "force" some alternative meanings upon NOT COUNTING sins against mankind will simply remain a "fruitless account" AS that position does run HEADLONG against the scriptures.

enjoy!

squint

 

[DArceri]

What makes you so sure that Jesus was speaking only to mankind here? We already know that God was in Christ, reconciling the "world" unto Himself, NOT COUNTING sins against them.

Perhaps the "sinners" in the flesh are not seen clearly by "most?"

They have a "choice" as well, and they WILL resist "everytime."
[/u][/color][/b]

Let's also not mistake perishing as it pertains to the flesh the same as eternal torture.

We've already done this drill:

Romans 6:7
-anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

It would appear to me that the Tower has already killed us because of SIN. We are to account our flesh in THAT WAY because of the presence of SIN which actions are OF THE DEVIL.

IF and when you start "dividing" you and your fellow man along these scriptural lines, you will stop blaming and accusing your fellow man, and will actually be "enabled" to both love THEM and remain in proper judgment against the other parties to this dance, the devil. Til then you have what I call a typical mixture and misidentification of the parties. I don't hold it against YOU as Gods child.


The devils in the flesh who are the CAUSE of sin will NEVER get in, nor will they understand LOVE, MERCY OR FORGIVENESS to our fellow man.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Let's not mistake what we are bound with to be the "same as" those ALL who will receive DIVINE MERCY.

I don't have a problem with ANY of the damnation scriptures, but I am very aware that there is more in the bodies of mankind than JUST THEM. If you don't get it, then you are not slated by God to understand this.

To then keep trying to "force" some alternative meanings upon NOT COUNTING sins against mankind will simply remain a "fruitless account" AS that position does run HEADLONG against the scriptures.

enjoy!

squint

 

[DArceri]

Originally Posted by squint
What makes you so sure that Jesus was speaking only to mankind here?

"Lord, will those who are saved be few?"
And he said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.


SQUINT, Squint, Squint.....
Jesus was talking to man, NOT Satan!!! Satan wants his own kingdom....WAKE UP

 

[squint]

"Lord, will those who are saved be few?"

And he said to them, 24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Luke 12:14
And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?

Jesus does not divide with the 'strangers' nor does He shed His Life or Love on "them."

If you want to account for the many many scriptures which have been placed between us, please feel free to do so. Otherwise a scriptural measure has been laid down between mankind and satankind and that will remain a clean cut line. I do not hold it against Gods offspring if they do not understand this division, but the division is a most real and potent one, and one that RILES the darkness in mankind's flesh.

enjoy!

squint

 

[DArceri]

Luke 12:14
And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?

Jesus does not divide with the 'strangers' nor does He shed His Life or Love on "them."

AGAIN Squint, totally out of context...THIS IS GETTING OLD...

READ THE WHOLE PARABLE !!!!!


15 "Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."

Jesus' is saying His role is not an ARBITRATOR OF "PETTY MATERIALISTIC THINGS" SQUINT.



20 But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?'

 

[squint]

AGAIN Squint, totally out of context...THIS IS GETTING OLD...

You've not made any of the scriptures provided go away. I certainly "know" what you are trying to do, but without the other parties to these things at the table, how can we then have a complete rendering?

I have no requirement to count sins against mankind per the scriptures. I have no requirement to condemn any other person for sins IF I see the devil clearly implicated and clearly damned. That too fulfills the scriptures regarding damnation. I have no problem with God's Eternal Judgment against "the devil and his messengers" and you surely CANNOT make a legitimate claim that "they are not in the flesh" of mankind.

So there you have it d. IF and when you bring in all the bad guys we'd perhaps have a lot less trouble with these matters AND we'd all stop pointing the fingers at each other and turn Gods Rightful Judgment where it belongs.

READ THE WHOLE PARABLE !!!!!

15 "Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."

Jesus' is saying His role is not an ARBITRATOR OF "PETTY MATERIALISTIC THINGS" SQUINT.

What those parables may say to you when you only see man and what they may say to me when I see "the other occupants" of the flesh will most certainly bring us to different conclusions. That's all I really have to say about it. If you haven't gotten the drift here yet it is unlikely you will.

You have my prayers. "They" will have resistance via Gods Word of "division" and judgment and "they" will certainly "cause" "some" believers to NOT LOVE our fellow man. I have no reason to go down "that" road.

God Is Love and God Is The Saviour of ALL men, especially those who believe.

Good day!

enjoy!

squint

 

[DArceri]

You've not made any of the scriptures provided go away.

In your Mind.....

What those parables may say to you when you only see man and what they may say to me when I see "the other occupants" of the flesh will most certainly bring us to different conclusions. That's all I really have to say about it. If you haven't gotten the drift here yet it is unlikely you will.


squint

God's Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

Rom 1:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of human beings who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[squint]

In your Mind.....


God's Wrath Against Sinful Humanity

Rom 1:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of human beings who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The body does die because of sins so that's a moot point.

And obviously since they "knew" God they were not believers. hello.

and you must have dug quite awhile to find a version that changed "wicked men" into "humanity."

heh heh heh. I mean the writers of "Todays New International" may not divide what is "in men" either, so I expect them to "change the terms."

oh well

 

[DArceri]

The body does die because of sins so that's a moot point.

MOOT??? NOPE. You missed the point. This is specifically talking to the natural man, the man of flesh, the atheists, the idol worshipers, the corrupt man, and they are all without excuse. What does it mean to be without excuse Squint?..Does your bible show the words WRATH OF GOD and the words UNRIGHTEOUSNESS OF MEN and the words WITHOUT EXCUSE? The reason I am repeating myself is because you seem to either gloss over those words or twist it to mean that God holds the devil responsible for natural man's faults.

And obviously since they "knew" God they were not believers. hello.

Not sure what you just said, but lets just state fact here... There is no excuse for unbeleivers. This passage is saying non-beleivers are held accountable for "creation" speaks of God, they are without excuse Squint. That is what this whole passage is about. Hello. Hello. What part of "without excuse" do you not understand?

and you must have dug quite awhile to find a version that changed "wicked men" into "humanity."

LOL...Actually it was the first version of biblegate.com that popped up. I can give all the versions if you want. However, THE CONTEXT doesn't change to "satan" is responsible. SORRY SQUINT..... MAN IS MADE RESPONSIBLE.

NASB
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.... so that they are without excuse.
KJV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.......so that they are without excuse.
ESV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth....so that they are without excuse.
NKJV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness....so that they are without excuse.


SQUINT,....EITHER MAN HAS AN EXCUSE OR HE DOESN'T.....DOES it say man has an excuse Squint?

Listen Squint,
ITS NOT ABOUT YOU AND ITS NOT ABOUT ME.... IT'S ALL ABOUT GOD SQUINT, SO GET OVER YOURSELF .... We all DESERVE TO DIE.... GOD IS HOLY, HOLY, HOLY..... If God decided to save only one person....that would have been His devine choice. If two, His choice, if three, that is His choice,.....We were created BY his purpose and FOR his purpose. Life is about God using us for His purpose, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND....GOD'S GLORY IS REVEALED ON EARTH IN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM SQUINT. God's Son is the RADIANCE OF HIS GLORY.....That is why we are told to be faithful and trust Him (Trust Him in this world SQUINT, not the next). We are Glorifying THE FATHER BY believing and trusting THE SON. Those that don't believe in His Son DISHONOR GOD.... they are unworthy of Him Squint........ GOD IS NOT TO BE MOCKED BY YOUR UNIVERSALISM.

 

[nobdysfool]

It is appointed unto men once to die, and after that, judgment. There is no Purgatory, there is no "second chance" after death. If a man dies in his sins, he will be judged for his sins, and cast into the Lake of Fire. Men can only be saved in this life. After they die, it is too late.

Obviously you don't like that, but all your twisting and turning, and wresting of scripture from its context, and reading into scripture things and ideas that aren't there will change it.

Let the Word of God be True, and every man found a liar. The Word of God standeth sure.

 

[squint]

It is appointed unto men once to die, and after that, judgment. There is no Purgatory, there is no "second chance" after death. If a man dies in his sins, he will be judged for his sins, and cast into the Lake of Fire. Men can only be saved in this life. After they die, it is too late.

Obviously you don't like that, but all your twisting and turning, and wresting of scripture from its context, and reading into scripture things and ideas that aren't there will change it.

Let the Word of God be True, and every man found a liar. The Word of God standeth sure.

Mankind remains "bound" by their sin indwelling here, which also reaches into their hearts. Some men even go so far as to hate their fellow mankind so much that those same men will never be reached with God's Love.

God will remedy that by "not counting" sins against mankind.

And God does even here, today, still release men from that blindness, and shows them that He loves them, and all.

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

MOOT??? NOPE. You missed the point. This is specifically talking to the natural man, the man of flesh, the atheists, the idol worshipers, the corrupt man, and they are all without excuse.

Well, it was "unbelievers" a few posts ago. And now it's believers too. And soon maybe it will be just down to you being saved? Is this where your Good News is headed?

What does it mean to be without excuse Squint?..

There is no "excuse" for the "causes" of sin.

Does your bible show the words WRATH OF GOD and the words UNRIGHTEOUSNESS OF MEN and the words WITHOUT EXCUSE?

Absolutely. God gave us His Word to show us that the resistors to His Love are in our own hearts. The Good News is that "they" are not "us."

The reason I am repeating myself is because you seem to either gloss over those words or twist it to mean that God holds the devil responsible for natural man's faults.

darceri, you have yet to deal with a single one of the many exceptions to your intended views. And you can't. I can read.

Not sure what you just said, but lets just state fact here... There is no excuse for unbeleivers.

We've already done this drill darceri. Jesus said of the unbeliever, I judge him NOT. That pretty well summed it up for me. And sins are not counted against mankind. That really packed away judgment.

This passage is saying non-beleivers are held accountable for "creation" speaks of God, they are without excuse Squint. That is what this whole passage is about. Hello. Hello. What part of "without excuse" do you not understand?

The devil knows God quite well darceri. And the devil will fry for blinding mankind. IF that is not enough for you, what do you expect me to say. I have clear scriptural statements that contradict your position, so I discard your position based on scriptural eveidence that allows me to love my fellow man. Why does that bother you?

LOL...Actually it was the first version of biblegate.com that popped up. I can give all the versions if you want. However, THE CONTEXT doesn't change to "satan" is responsible. SORRY SQUINT..... MAN IS MADE RESPONSIBLE.

We've done this drill before as well darceri. The term "men" and also the term "angels" are multifunctional in the text. Those terms can refer to mankind, holy angels and DEVILS. I have no use in pinning my understanding on ONE potential meaning when there are at least 3. It is that same "non-understanding" that makes "mankind" think that the "devil" was once holy gone bad. Wicked "men" and evil "men" can also refer to DEVILS in MEN because that is WHERE THEY ARE, in mankind. Even Lucifer was called a MAN in the scriptures.

NASB
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.... so that they are without excuse.
KJV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.......so that they are without excuse.
ESV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth....so that they are without excuse.
NKJV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness....so that they are without excuse.

SQUINT,....EITHER MAN HAS AN EXCUSE OR HE DOESN'T.....DOES it say man has an excuse Squint?

Depends on "which men" we are talking about doesn't it? If again you want to restrict the terms down to less than what those terms entail, then you'd have a point, but since the DEVIL is IN man, BLIND's man, corrupts MAN, why in the WORLD would I neglect that as a fact? The "man of sin" the "son of perdition" is SATAN and SATAN sits in the seat of humanity. Sorry, it's just a scriptural FACT. And one that I must DIVIDE if I have been commanded to LOVE my fellow man. If another person remains blinded to this fact, you also then know who I blame according to the scriptures, because I am also advised to NOT COUNT sins against my fellow man.

Listen Squint,
ITS NOT ABOUT YOU AND ITS NOT ABOUT ME.... IT'S ALL ABOUT GOD SQUINT, SO GET OVER YOURSELF .... We all DESERVE TO DIE.... GOD IS HOLY, HOLY, HOLY.....

and we all do die because of SIN in the flesh WHICH IS of the devil.. Your point?

If God decided to save only one person....that would have been His devine choice. If two, His choice, if three, that is His choice,.....We were created BY his purpose and FOR his purpose.

Well, you wouldn't be the first person I've met who have made that claim. IF that were the case, then Jesus had no business holding Himself out as THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD. He should have described Himself far differently eh?

Life is about God using us for His purpose, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND....GOD'S GLORY IS REVEALED ON EARTH IN THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM SQUINT.

If you don't believe as the scriptures say, that anyone, anyone, who loves, does right and does good knows God and is Born of God, what is that to me dareri? Nothing. I have not imposed my own subjective binders on those presentations.

God's Son is the RADIANCE OF HIS GLORY.....That is why we are told to be faithful and trust Him (Trust Him in this world SQUINT, not the next). We are Glorifying THE FATHER BY believing and trusting THE SON. Those that don't believe in His Son DISHONOR GOD.... they are unworthy of Him Squint........ GOD IS NOT TO BE MOCKED BY YOUR UNIVERSALISM.

You can trumpet the eternal damnation of your fellow man all you want. That is very typical of those who seem to have lost sight of the prize, to LOVE them.

enjoy!

squint

 

[DArceri]

Well, it was "unbelievers" a few posts ago. And now it's believers too. And soon maybe it will be just down to you being saved? Is this where your Good News is headed?

Romans 1:18 was directed at non-beleivers. You obviously misunderstood what I wrote. This passage is directly talking to NON-BELEIVERS and you can't refute the message ...all are held accountable to acknowledging God.

Absolutely. God gave us His Word to show us that the resistors to His Love are in our own hearts. The Good News is that "they" are not "us."

God TELLS US He puts full blame on everybody that does not recognize Him via His creation. They are WITHOUT EXCUSE for creation speaks for Him..

We've already done this drill darceri. Jesus said of the unbeliever, I judge him NOT. That pretty well summed it up for me. And sins are not counted against mankind. That really packed away judgment.

NOPE: Jesus came not to judge us during His ministry on Earth, however, God has given Jesus all authority to Judge AS LORD. Jesus is both Savior and LORD. The books that are opened (Revelation 20:12) contain records of everyone’s deeds whether they are good or evil, because God knows everything that has ever been said, done, or even thought; and He will reward or punish each one accordingly (Psalm 28:4; Psalm 62:12; Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; Revelation 18:6; Revelation 22:12). The Bible is very clear that the unbeliever is storing up “wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God (Romans 2:5), and that God will “render to each one according to his deeds” (Romans 2:6). 3—that believers will also be judged by Christ, but since Christ’s righteousness has been imputed to them and their names are written in the “book of life,” they will be rewarded according to the deeds that they did. Romans 14:10-12 is very clear that “we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ” and that each one of us will “give an account of himself to God.”

I have clear scriptural statements that contradict your position, so I discard your position based on scriptural eveidence that allows me to love my fellow man. Why does that bother you?

QUITE THE CONTRARY SQUINT....

We've done this drill before as well darceri. The term "men" and also the term "angels" are multifunctional in the text. Those terms can refer to mankind, holy angels and DEVILS.

WHAT?????????? MULTIFUNCTIONAL ????? It appears that Universalism is just a "multifunctional" Gospel....PROOF THAT YOUR "RELIGION" IS ANYTHING YOU WANT IT TO BE....IT IS UNIVERSALISMS ATTEMPT TO FIT SCRIPTURE TO THEIR OWN PERSONAL GOD...

Depends on "which men" we are talking about doesn't it?

Squint. You need to think before you write...If it says MEN have no excuse because creation speaks of God, that means MEN....We all know the devil and any evil spirits have no excuse! Besides, the fallen angels or the devil already acknowledged God before mankind existed. Thus, how could this verse be directed at the spiritual beings??? MAN HAS NO EXCUSE.....HELLO.

THIS IS ANOTHER UNIVERSALISTIC ATTEMPT TO FIT SCRIPTURE TO YOUR OWN PERSONAL GOD.....Its really sad...

and we all do die because of SIN in the flesh WHICH IS of the devil.. Your point?

UUGGHH,......Only those that do not have FAITH and trust God will die in there sin.......There is no scriptural precedent or doctrine taught within scripture that illustrates justification apart from faith in the LORD Jesus Christ.

If you don't believe as the scriptures say, that anyone, anyone, who loves, does right and does good knows God and is Born of God, what is that to me dareri? Nothing. I have not imposed my own subjective binders on those presentations.

Again, SQUINT, HELLO...that speech was to believers..STOP USING LETTERS TO THE CHURCH AND FOR THE CHURCH TO FIT YOUR THEORY FOR UNBELEIVERS.

 

[squint]

Romans 1:18 was directed at non-beleivers. You obviously misunderstood what I wrote. This passage is directly talking to NON-BELEIVERS and you can't refute the message ...all are held accountable to acknowledging God.

As prior noted, "they knew God." And also duly noted those same "knowing the judgment of God." So again and again we have what "scripture" says and we have what scriptures says to "you" which in many cases turns out entirely different than what scripture actually says.

God TELLS US He puts full blame on everybody that does not recognize Him via His creation. They are WITHOUT EXCUSE for creation speaks for Him.

Your intentions here could just as easily be rendered to you moreso than the unbelievers, as "knowing God."

NOPE: Jesus came not to judge us during His ministry on Earth, however, God has given Jesus all authority to Judge AS LORD. Jesus is both Savior and LORD.

We keep doing this little drill. Jesus said the "Words" I HAVE (please note the past tense) SPOKEN will judge the unbeliver and those Words WERE, "I JUDGE HIM NOT." It really doesn't matter to me if you cannot accept that plain statement.

The books that are opened (Revelation 20:12) contain records of everyone’s deeds whether they are good or evil, because God knows everything that has ever been said, done, or even thought; and He will reward or punish each one accordingly

Well, I might surmise that one might get what they measured to OTHERS....get it?

And please do remember, I fully accept EVERY eternal judgment and eternal torment scripture. Just not for Gods offspring, whom all of mankind are, as eternally torturing THEM is presented nowhere in the scriptures. And of course that is not "all" that is in the flesh of mankind. I have no cause to blindly blame and accuse mankind when there are clearly other occupants of the flesh.

The Bible is very clear that the unbeliever is storing up “wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God
(Romans 2:5),

Romans 2:5 has nothing to say to "unbelievers" but to "those men" who judge other men unto condemnation....hello.

and that God will “render to each one according to his deeds” (Romans 2:6).

As prior noted one cannot measure much more hatred unto their fellow man than to condemn them to fry alive forever can they? What measure do you think you might get under "your" scenario? I'd quite frankly be just a tad more cautious about who and how I judge in that LIGHT eh?

3—that believers will also be judged by Christ, but since Christ’s righteousness has been imputed to them and their names are written in the “book of life,” they will be rewarded according to the deeds that they did. Romans 14:10-12 is very clear that “we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ” and that each one of us will “give an account of himself to God.”

I have no problem with any of those scriptures. You and I will simply remain apart on the identity of those who WILL be punished, and you remain not addressing the "numerous exceptions" to your own scenario, starting with "made enemies" of the Gospel being ALL saved as it pertains to Israel in Romans 11, which you have bypassed for several days now. go figure.

BELIEVERS ARE BORN-AGAIN SQUINT...Non-beleivers will DIE IN THERE SINS LIKE SCRIPTURE SAYS.

We've done this drill enough times now to where you should get the drift that everyone who loves knows God and is BORN OF GOD just like John says. And everyone also that does RIGHT. God is not against these things. I'd personally be pretty hard pressed to say that some other person, whom I'd never know, didn't do that. Sorry. Your gate blocking is of no interest to me when I have clearly contradicting presentations to "yours" from the scriptures. If you cannot accept what the Apostles said, it sure ain't gonna make any difference what I say to ya.

Again, SQUINT, HELLO...that speech was to believers..STOP USING LETTERS TO THE CHURCH AND FOR THE CHURCH TO FIT YOUR THEORY FOR UNBELEIVERS.

They say "everyone" not "believing everyone." I don't have to insert my own special meanings to suit my own conceptions.

We are for no uncertain terms COMMANDED to love our neighbors as ourselves. You might read sometime about the "lawyer" who said "who is my neighbor?" and Jesus' response. It was the one who actually LOVED that was righteous, you know, the unbelieving Samaritan. According to you you are only required to love believers, which of course is SO not true.

You might also take a swing at 1 Tim. 4:8-11 sometime, you know, where God says He is The Saviour of ALL MEN, "especially those who believe.



Luke 11:42
"Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter

I wouldn't be looking forward to hearing that from our Lord, would YOU?

1 Thessalonians 3:12
And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men

I really do hope you get it someday, and I know In God you will if you are His. God sets all captives free by His Great Love. I hope that Love sinks into your heart before you leave this place, sincerely.

enjoy!

squint

 

[DArceri]

As prior noted, "they knew God."

20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Do I have to break down every single sentence for you....notice the verse says.... "CLEARY SEEN"...and "BEING UNDERSTOOD FROM WHAT IS MADE!!!! This passage says that man can clearly see and fully understand from what is MADE, that GOD EXISTS.....HELLO...MAN IS WITHOUTR EXCUSE.

We keep doing this little drill. Jesus said the "Words" I HAVE (please note the past tense) SPOKEN will judge the unbeliver and those Words WERE, "I JUDGE HIM NOT." It really doesn't matter to me if you cannot accept that plain statement.

Who said any different?....Jesus did not come (to Earth) AS A MAN to judge anyone.....!!!!

AGAIN:
The books that are opened (Revelation 20:12) contain records of everyone’s deeds whether they are good or evil, because God knows everything that has ever been said, done, or even thought; and He will reward or punish each one accordingly (Psalm 28:4; Psalm 62:12; Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; Revelation 18:6; Revelation 22:12). The Bible is very clear that the unbeliever is storing up “wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God (Romans 2:5), and that God will “render to each one according to his deeds” (Romans 2:6). 3—that believers will also be judged by Christ, but since Christ’s righteousness has been imputed to them and their names are written in the “book of life,” they will be rewarded according to the deeds that they did. Romans 14:10-12 is very clear that “we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ” and that each one of us will “give an account of himself to God.”

I have no cause to blindly blame and accuse mankind when there are clearly other occupants of the flesh.

I hope you are not judging others, that's GOD'S job Squint.

Romans 2:5 has nothing to say to "unbelievers" but to "those men" who judge other men unto condemnation....

Ok...Lets see where this takes us...If I am a Universalist then why should I care about bashing others and even hating God...God won't blame a universalist. RIGHT SQUINT. The old "THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT" excuse. I am IMMUNE to all sick actions I may do on earth. Even though a man may hate God and blasphemy God, he is saved. Hallelujah man.

Squint don't you see how dangerous this philosphy is? If you are wrong you are taking others down with you!!!!


If in any manner we reason “God is love because He saves all men,” we establish God’s Being by a utilitarian process that defines God by what He does for man. This is the essence of idolatry, for idols are defined by how they serve, satisfy, and benefit man. Idols are constructed for man’s well-being. We must not engage in the idolatry of making God a magical means to man’s ends. Universalism often ends up being both humanistic and idolatrous as it constructs a “god” who is a universal producer of egalitarian benefits and blessings for man. The benefits and blessings are then elevated for worship, instead of worshipping and glorifying God for the worthiness of His own Being. We do not worship God for what He can do for us, but for Who He is in Himself.

 

[DArceri]

God’s love is not prescribed or contained in a decreed “plan” for the final universal destiny of mankind. Rather, God’s love is revealed in the “Person” of Jesus Christ and the gracious opportunity all men have to participate in the love-life of the triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Universalism tends to deify human reason, creating a God of human deduction that is prescribed by logical necessities, rather than worshipping the God of the universe who has revealed His love in Jesus Christ, and is desirous of a love relationship with those who are receptive to His life in faith, and willing to allow Him to become the basis of their identity and function.

 

[TigerLily5]

Makes one glad that in the end, God judges all. Believers still need to follow God's will, though.

 

[squint]

You've defeated none of the scriptures of Love, nor will you, nor can you.

God Is Love. His Love is The Overcomer in US all.

You will never be able to "proof text" your way into Love. You will never be able to keep any of mankind away from Gods Love, no matter how hard you try.

The heavily burdened in this life will get His Rest. His Burden is LIGHT.

You can keep your gate blockers. There is a far better way.

enjoy!

squint

 

[nobdysfool]

You've defeated none of the scriptures of Love, nor will you, nor can you.

God Is Love. His Love is The Overcomer in US all.

You will never be able to "proof text" your way into Love. You will never be able to keep any of mankind away from Gods Love, no matter how hard you try.

The heavily burdened in this life will get His Rest. His Burden is LIGHT.

You can keep your gate blockers. There is a far better way.

enjoy!

squint

Don't let the door hit your backside on the way out....