I think I am seeing language to describe the Trinity not found here --
From:
Protestantism - Wikipedia
“The Trinity is the belief that God is
one God in three persons:
God the Father, God the Son ( Jesus ), and God the Holy Spirit.
And then seeing posts that amount to 'not supposed to notice it was not in the Protestant statement"
However - as ll the "Sola Scriptura" threads on this forum section in GT show - even the Catholics are admitting that their language cannot be "derived" from a sola scriptura defense of their Trinity - rather it comes from tradition. Clearly you would not expect the reader to simply "not notice" that their text is missing from the Protestant statement above.
Firstly, no one cares that the definition provided in Wikipedia on an article on Protestantism concerning the Trinity is minimalistic. I would expect such an article to mention the Trinity in a cursory manner, since the main subject matter of such an article would inevitably be the Protestant Reformation and the doctrinal differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, and between different Protestant churches, as opposed to the similarities.
Secondly, Where are these Catholics? Everyone in this thread disagreeing with your argument is Protestant (except for Pavel Mosko, who is Oriental Orthodox).
There was never any rupture between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism regarding Trinitarian theology. Indeed, John Calvin even lured the non-Trinitarian Servetus to Geneva so he could be executed, in order to firmly demonstrate Nicene Trinitarian orthodoxy on the part of the Reformed Church.
interesting alternate reading of that statement
It’s not my reading and it’s not alternate - the reading in question is from the Nicene Creed / CF.com Statement of Faith.
is begotten FROM eternity is not the same as "is begotten BY an eternal generation".
Eternal generation is ongoing... "The Father actively and eternally generates the Son"
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It is a doctrine of Nicene Christianity that there never was a time when the Son was not. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are coequal, coessential and coeternal.
Now when we think about eternity in this construct, we have to understand that the Son was not begotten of the Father in some impossibly obscure time, but rather is begotten of the Father out of time. One legitimate way of looking at that is that the Son is eternally generated (or begotten), just as the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds, from the Father.
It is also a foundational doctrine of Nicene Christianity, whether Protestant, Orthodox or Catholic, that while all three persons of the Trinity are coequal and uncreated, the Father alone is unoriginate, and this doctrine is stressed to a particular extent in Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, where the Filioque clause is omitted and the Holy Spirit is said to proceed from the Father only. However, it is uncontroversial to say that the Father is the eternal source of the Godhood, and this agrees with Scripture.
To your point -
from:
https://www.fullycatholic.com/catho...sm-2/ccc/catechism-catholic-church-father/#II
We don't see the language you say you find no problem with
- by an eternal generation
- The Father actively and eternally generates the Son, constituting the person of “God the Father”.
I would expect the Catechism of the Catholic Church to not delve into Triadology to the extent of the unofficial Catholic Encyclopedia.
253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.”84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”85
254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. “God is one but not solitary.”86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: “He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son.”87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: “It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds.”88 The divine Unity is Triune.
255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: “In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance.”89 Indeed “everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship.”90 “Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son.”91
Everything you cited from that Roman Catholic website is a principle of Western Nicene Christianity, which Protestantism adheres to, and in this thread numerous Protestants have told you as much. I don’t see any replies by Roman Catholics in this thread; it is the Protestant members who are standing by the Roman Catholic definition of the Trinity, because it agrees with the Nicene Creed. For example, in article 255 you quoted above, it expresses a belief in one nature or substance. The doctrine of a unifying divine nature or substance is integral to the Nicene faith in the Trinity.
There is much more to the concept of the Trinity than “one God in three persons,” because each divine Person has a distinctive role and relationship with the other Persons of the Trinity, and furthermore Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, participating in the divine nature with the Father while also having a human nature and thus being consubstantial with us.