One God in Three Persons, Blessed Trinity

[BobRyan]

So in the Bible we see -
Deut 6:4 - One God
Matt 28:19 - in Three Persons.

My main question is about that two step definition
1. ONE God
2. In THREE Persons.

does your definition of "Trinity" - your denomination's definition of the term - include both of those aspects???


So then using that "definition" of the term above...
1. Jesus is not "praying to himself" in John 17 when He says "5 And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed."
2. Jesus is not talking about "sending Himself" in John 16 when he says he will send the Holy Spirit "another comforter".
3. Jesus it not praying to Himself when He says "nevertheless not My will but Thy will be done".
4. Jesus is not speaking of Himself in John 14 when I says He never speaks any word of His own - but only speaks what the Father tells Him to say.
=====================================
This is not a debate against the Trinity - it is information on the various ways denominations define that term "precisely/in-more-detail"
===============================

I am sure everyone here agrees with the Trinity doctrine and this is also true of Seventh-day Adventists as stated in my thread title.

My question is about the various "other" definitions of that term.

For example - do Baptists accept such a "one God in three Persons" definition?
How about Methodists?
What other groups accept that idea for the Trinity??

I don't think the Catholic Church defines Trinity exactly that way - but welcome whatever definition your denomination uses - as a point of information for this thread. Please post a link to an official document for your denomination that describes how you define the term and whether you consider that definition to be in line with the title of this thread.

=========== Some Catholic statements I found for the Trinity

They do appear to have "one God in three persons" - but they also have this --


From – catholic.com Explaining the Trinity

in the Catholic church –

• The Father actively and eternally generates the Son, constituting the person of “God the Father”.
• The Son is passively generated of the Father, which constitutes the person of the Son.
• The Father and the Son actively spirate the Holy Spirit

-----

========================== PROTESTANT Trinity

From: Protestantism - Wikipedia

“The Trinity is the belief that God is one God in three persons: God the Father, God the Son ( Jesus ), and God the Holy Spirit.

"Protestants who adhere to the Nicene Creed believe in three persons ( God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit) as one God.”

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I go with the relational diagram, it tends to help weed out manifestations that are not the trinity.

 

[BobRyan]

I go with the relational diagram, it tends to help weed out manifestations that are not the trinity.

View attachment 314876

Do you view your diagram as "compatible with" or "in unison with" a "One God in Three Persons" definition?

In other words - your diagram may convey more than that - but does it convey at least that?

It looks to be compatible if not the same thing as ...

========================

I found some added info on the Catholic view of Trinity

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Trinity

The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."

In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.

…

Granted that in the infinite mind, in which the categories are transcended, there are three relations which are subsistent realities, distinguished one from another in virtue of their relative opposition then it will follow that the same mind will have a three-fold consciousness, knowing itself in three ways in accordance with its three modes of existence. It is impossible to establish that, in regard of the infinite mind, such a supposition involves a contradiction.

The question was raised by the Scholastics: In what sense are we to understand the Divine act of generation? As we conceive things, the relations of paternity and filiation are due to an act by which the Father generates the Son; the relations of spiration and procession, to an act by which Father and Son breathe forth the Holy Spirit. St. Thomas replies that the acts are identical with the relations of generation and spiration; only the mode of expression on our part is different (I:41:3, ad 2). This is due to the fact that the forms alike of our thought and our language are moulded upon the material world in which we live. In this world origination is in every case due to the effecting of a change. We call the effecting of the change action, and its reception passion. Thus, action and passion are different from the permanent relations consequent on them. But in the Godhead origination is eternal: it is not the result of change. Hence the term signifying action denotes not the production of the relation, but purely the relation of the Originator to the Originated. The terminology is unavoidable because the limitations of our experience force us to represent this relation as due to an act. Indeed throughout this whole subject we are hampered by the imperfection of human language as an instrument wherewith to express verities higher than the facts of the world. When, for instance, we say that the Son possesses filiation and spiration the terms seem to suggest that these are forms inherent in Him as in a subject. We know, indeed, that in the Divine Persons there can be no composition: they are absolutely simple. Yet we are forced to speak thus: for the one Personality, not withstanding its simplicity, is related to both the others, and by different relations. We cannot express this save by attributing to Him filiation and spiration (I:32:2).

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So in the Bible we see -
Deut 6:4 - One God
Matt 28:19 - in Three Persons.

This is not a debate against the Trinity - it is information on the various ways denominations define that term "precisely/in-more-detail"
===============================

I am sure everyone here agrees with the Trinity doctrine and this is also true of Seventh-day Adventists as stated in my thread title.

My question is about the various "other" definitions of that term.

For example - do Baptists accept such a "one God in three Persons" definition?
How about Methodists?
I don't think the Catholic Church defines Trinity exactly that way - but welcome whatever definition your denomination uses - as a point of information for this thread. Please post a link to an official document for your denomination that describes how you define the term and whether you consider that definition to be in line with the title of this thread.

I use Isaiah 9:6-7. There is nothing more confirming than these prophetic words.
"And His Name will be called".....

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

In the Nicene Creed we have:
What We Believe

Notice no mention of "person".


The key term for the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father and then the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son". Once again , as in transubstantiation" we have the word "SUBSTANCE". That is what these entities share.

There could be said to be two rather different ways of characterizing the philosophical concept of substance. The first is the more generic. The philosophical term ‘substance’ corresponds to the Greek ousia, which means ‘being’, transmitted via the Latin substantia, which means ‘something that stands under or grounds things’. According to the generic sense, therefore, the substances in a given philosophical system are those things that, according to the system, are the foundational or fundamental entities of reality.

The second use of the concept is more specific. According to this, substances are a particular kind of basic entity, and some philosophical theories acknowledge them and others do not.

Substance (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Now, what exactly do we mean by "substance". i am still not sure.

 

[The Liturgist]

@BobRyan speaking of the Trinity, you might be troubled to know that a few months back an Adventist on one of the forums said to me something to the effect that SDA doctrine is that while Jesus Christ was on Earth he was not God.

This would contradict the Nicene Creed and John 1:1-17 where it states Jesus Christ is God Incarnate, and thus I believe this is not the case and the member was in error, because if you deny the Incarnation, you deny the Nicene Creed and a nominal belief in the Trinity is meaningless, for even the Mormons profess a belief in the Trinity although their doctrine is actually Tritheistic. And since SDAs agree with the Statement of Faith which include the Nicene Creed, I am certain they were in error. I don’t recall offhand who said it, but I might be able to search for it.

 

[The Liturgist]

.

 

[The Liturgist]

In the Nicene Creed we have:
What We Believe

Notice no mention of "person".


The key term for the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father and then the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son". Once again , as in transubstantiation" we have the word "SUBSTANCE". That is what these entities share.

There could be said to be two rather different ways of characterizing the philosophical concept of substance. The first is the more generic. The philosophical term ‘substance’ corresponds to the Greek ousia, which means ‘being’, transmitted via the Latin substantia, which means ‘something that stands under or grounds things’. According to the generic sense, therefore, the substances in a given philosophical system are those things that, according to the system, are the foundational or fundamental entities of reality.

The second use of the concept is more specific. According to this, substances are a particular kind of basic entity, and some philosophical theories acknowledge them and others do not.

Substance (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Now, what exactly do we mean by "substance". i am still not sure.

However, Quincunque Vult, also known as the Athanasian Creed, which the Catholic Church also accepts, does refer to persons. The Roman Catholic version (there is also an Eastern Orthodox version which lacks those statements corresponding to the Filioque in the Nicene Creed, which is in the Jordanville Psalter; I can obtain that text if anyone is interested) is as follows:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead.He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you view your diagram as "compatible with" or "in unison with" a "One God in Three Persons" definition?

In other words - your diagram may convey more than that - but does it convey at least that?

It looks to be compatible if not the same thing as ...

One God in Three persons can still convey the meaning of modalism. I know the One God in Three Persons is a baptist verbiage, and means trinity. However, there is a lot of commuting of pentecostal to baptist congregations and vice versa. Since it is common among pentecostals to use modalist analogies such as body mind and spirit and thusforth ... the phrase "one God in three persons" does not convey as much as the picture, which some say is worth 1000 words.

The reason this is important is that Jesus prayed to the Father "may they be one as we are so the whole world will know that you have sent me." That being, there is a spiritual unity application that can be hijacked by witches if it is modalist, but not so if it conforms to the trinitarian style of spiritual unity.

 

[1an]

Whatever his name, or whatever we call Him, there is only One God and here he is in the OLD TESTAMENT.

1 Kings 18 He is our chief prophet and teacher who restores true religion by calling us away from our idols to return to the One True God.

1 Kings 8; 2 Chron. 3 He is the very temple of God, which though destroyed was raised again in 3 days

2 Sam. 7 He is the offspring of David whose kingdom has been established forever

Dan. 7 He is the Son of Man whom the Ancient of Days gives all dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, and that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion

Deut. 28 He gives us every blessing for his obedience to God’s perfect commands, and he paid the price for the curse we deserved for our every disobedience.

Ecclesiastes He is the only purpose in life that matters.

Exod. 12 He is the Passover Lamb who was slain to protect God’s people from the Angel of Death.

Exod. 12-14 He is the greater son of Israel who came out of Egypt, and He is the great redeemer who brings his people out of bondage and slavery that is far worse than anything the Israelites experienced there.

Exod. 16 He is the true bread from heaven that actually nourishes and feeds his people.

Exod. 17 He is the Rock from whom the only life-giving water flows.

Exod. 20 He is the fulfilment of the Law, perfectly obeying not only the 10 Commandments but all 613 from the day of his birth.

Exod. 23:10-12 He is the One through whom we enter into our lasting Sabbath rest, not just for one day out of seven, but for every day from now through all eternity.

Exod. 28-29 He is our great High Priest who offers his very body as an atonement for the sins of his people.

Exod. 40:34-38 He is the radiance of God, the exact representation of his being, and is the very presence and glory of God among his people, even more than the ark or the pillars of cloud and fire.

Ezek. 37 He brings life to dead men’s bones; by his Spirit he causes breath to come where death had reigned.

Ezra 7 He is leading a remnant out of Babylon back to the Holy Land

Gen. 12:3 He is the descendent of Abraham.

Gen. 3:15 He is the promised seed of Adam who would crush Satan’s head.

Gen. 49:8-12 He is the son of Judah, who reigns eternally as king, whose garments are washed in the blood of grapes, and whose hand is on the neck of his enemies.

Habakkuk 1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.

Hosea 1-3. He is the merciful husband who takes back his unfaithful wife and allows us to once again call him “My husband” rather than “My Baal”

Isaiah 11 He is the shoot coming from the stump of Jesse, and righteousness will be the belt of his waist. During his reign, the wolf will dwell with the lamb and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together, and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 40 In his coming, the glory of the Lord is revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

Isaiah 42 He is the Lord’s servant, in whom his soul delights, and with whom he is very well pleased.

Isaiah 43 He is Israel’s only saviour and besides him, there is no other.

Isaiah 53 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. He is the one who bore our griefs and carried our sorrows. He was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes, we were healed.

Isaiah 61. He is anointed by the Lord to preach good news to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prisons to those who are bound. He proclaims the year of the Lord’s favour, and the day of vengeance of our God; and he comforts all who mourn

Isaiah 65 He creates the new heavens and the new earth and he will dwell with his people there forever.

Isaiah 7 He is the sign to Ahaz, one named Immanuel and born to a virgin

Isaiah 9 He is the great light shining to a people walking in darkness, coming out of Galilee of the nations; He is the child born who is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace, there will be no end, and on the throne of David and over his kingdom, he will establish and uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore.

Jer. 25 He drinks the cup of the wine of the wrath of God so that his people will be spared.

Jer. 31 He ushers in the new covenant in his blood, a covenant written on the hearts of his people, and marked by his forgiveness of our sin.

Jer. 8. He is the balm in Gilead that heals the sin-sick soul; he is the great physician who restores the health of his people

Jeremiah 23 He is the Righteous Branch from David who will deal wisely and execute justice and righteousness in the land.

Job 19:25 He is Job’s hope and ours because we know that our Redeemer lives and at the last, he will stand upon the earth.

Joel 2 He brings the Day of the Lord, which will be a day of great terror and judgment for all who do not know him, but everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved

Joshua 3. He leads his redeemed people into the Promised Land where they will dwell with him forever

Joshua 5 He is our conquering warrior, victorious over the powers of sin and death

Judges 2 He is the righteous judge and saviour who never fails to defend and protect his people when they repent and turn back to him

Lam. 3 He is the very manifestation of the never-ceasing steadfast love of God. His mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; for great is his faithfulness

Lev. 16 He is the once for all sacrifice that God offered on the altar on the Day of Atonement on Calvary, and at the same time, he is the scapegoat that was sent out of God’s presence into the wilderness on account of the sin that he bore.

Mal. 4 He is the sun of righteousness, who will rise with healing in his wings, and as a result of what he has done, we, like calves, will go out leaping from our stalls

Mal. He is the refiner’s fire and the fuller’s soap, refining us like gold and silver

Micah 5 He is the ruler from Bethlehem Ephrathah, whose origin is of old, from ancient days

Num. 21 He is like the bronze serpent that was lifted up and when people look to him in faith, they find forgiveness and healing.

Num. 24:17 He is the star that shall come out of Jacob, and the sceptre that comes out of Israel.

Num. 34 He is a city of refuge for guilty sinners to run into and find shelter.

Proverbs He is the very wisdom of God made manifest in the flesh.

Psalm 110 He is the greater Son of David who will sit at Yahweh’s right hand until all his enemies are as footstools, and is the priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.

Psalm 119 He is the Word of God incarnate, and the only lamp for our path.

Psalm 16 And yet, his body did not see corruption, because, as David sang, God did not abandon him to Sheol, but raised him physically with an incorruptible body.

Psalm 2 He is the eternally begotten Son of the Lord Most High, whom kings fear in his anger, and who blesses those who take refuge in him

Psalm 22 He was for a time forsaken by God on the cross so that those who are found in him might never be rejected.

Psalm 23 He is the shepherd of his sheep, who restores the soul of his fold and leads us in paths of righteousness.

Psalm 51 He purges us with a cleanser much stronger than anything the hyssop branch can spatter on us—he washes us clean in his very blood so that we might be whiter than snow.

Psalm 91 At his command the angels would bear him up lest his foot strike a stone, yet he did not call on their aid but welcomed the cup the Lord had for him to drink.

Revelation 5:5 Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David.

Song of Songs 2 Jesus is the Rose of Sharon and the Lily of the Valley, and he is the husband who brings his beloved to the banqueting table and who satisfies her fully in his love

Zech. 9 He arrived as king in Jerusalem righteous and having salvation, yet he was humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

(Source unknown)

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I believe the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. But I do not use the word "trinity" nor do I condemn others who do not. I do not see that word in scripture, so I cannot in good conscience and faith demand that others use it. That is becoming very close to the "traditions of men" spoken of by Jesus. So while I agree in spirit, I only have issue when others demand the word be used "or else."

 

[Minister Monardo]

The Son is the manifestation of God to man,
by the Will and Purpose of the Father.
1 Timothy 2:
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men,
the Man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Therefore, when Jacob believed he had come face to face with God,
was this the Father or the Son?
Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel:
for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

 

[Minister Monardo]

The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God with us,
over us, in us, and through us, who are in Christ.
John 16:
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

1 John 4:
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another,
God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us,
because He has given us of His Spirit.

 

[Andrewn]

For example - do Baptists accept such a "one God in three Persons" definition? How about Methodists?

Every person could be a Trinitarian depending on

1) how they define the word "person" and on

2) how they understand the relationship of the Father and the Son in eternity, and on

3) how they understand the relationship of the Father and the Son in the atonement.

It is more your personal beliefs than your denomination's statement of faith.

 

[Andrewn]

Now, what exactly do we mean by "substance". i am still not sure.

The usual Latin terms are one substantial and 3 personae. I remember reading about Latin saints who translated the Greek concept as one essentia and 3 substantiae.

• Gk. hypostasis = Lat. substantia

Augustine of Hippo/On The Trinity - Wikiversity

To complicate things further, hypostasis is translated to Aramaic as Qnoma, which the Assyrian Church insists does not mean person.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Sit down with 50 people who use the word trinity and ask them to define what that means in detail, and I suspect you will find that very few agree with each other on every point. This is dangerous if you get dogmatic about the word "trinity" and demand that everyone accept, believe, and use the term. There are just so many variations and differences that even though we use the same word, chances are you are not in agreement in the details. I think it is best to just use scripture and not try to force it into a made-up framework. That is the cause of much division.

 

[The Liturgist]

The usual Latin terms are one substantial and 3 personae. I remember reading about Latin saints who translated the Greek concept as one essentia and 3 substantiae.

• Gk. hypostasis = Lat. substantia

Augustine of Hippo/On The Trinity - Wikiversity

To complicate things further, hypostasis is translated to Aramaic as Qnoma, which the Assyrian Church insists does not mean person.

Substance is sometimes confusingly used to refer to essence, or ousios.

Also, a hypostasis (literally translated, it means understanding, which is also what substance means, literally translated) is not the same as a prosopon (personam in Latin). So the Aramaic translation to qnoma is not inherently a problem. Basically the Christology of Mar Babai the Great is Chalcedonian but translated into Syriac, whereas the Christology of the Oriental Orthodox is miaphysite, but it has been realized that miaphysitism and chalcedonianism are equivalent, the schism being the result of the false accusation that miaphysitism is Eutychian monophysitism, but since all of these churches agree that God the Son became incarnate of the Virgin Mary and is fully Man and fully God without change, confusion, separation or division, the longstanding Eastern schisms are finally healing.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Lately though I have been wondering about the sense of "substance".

We can have something like wood is the substance of a type of bowl. And yet a bowl also has another substance, "bowlness". Just because something is wood does not make it a bowl. An ideal substance is required. and yet for a wooden bowl "wood" is its material substance. So when we talk about God are we talking about ideal substance (like the substance of an argument) or something more akin to material substance (like the substance of wood)?

 

[Andrewn]

So the Aramaic translation to qnoma is not inherently a problem. Basically the Christology of Mar Babai the Great is Chalcedonian but translated into Syriac,

I don't think the Aramaic translation is a problem at all. In fact, I think their definition of Qnoma is exactly what I believe about the Holy Trinity.

I'm currently reading "The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian" by Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev. He mentions that, in Christology, Assyrians use Qnoma as an equivalent to physis.

 

[Andrewn]

Lately though I have been wondering about the sense of "substance".

We can have something like wood is the substance of a type of bowl. And yet a bowl also has another substance, "bowlness". Just because something is wood does not make it a bowl. An ideal substance is required. and yet for a wooden bowl "wood" is its material substance.

In the context of the Trinity, this is exactly the _wrong_ definition of "substance." You can make so many different pagan gods with the same substance.