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One argument that will destroy christianity

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MoNiCa4316

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.

I'm sorry that's wrong :) yes we (at least we Catholics?) believe that those who've never heard of Jesus have the hope of salvation. But it doesn't mean they WILL be saved. They'll only go to Heaven if they respond to the graces they're given... like how God speaks to us through nature, private revelation, etc. But there's no guarantee that they will respond... many still reject.. because of sin. :( So they have the hope of salvation, but their hope is lesser than that of Christians cause we have more access to graces. Graces are like tools that God gives us to believe, follow Him, persevere, and go to Heaven someday. Christians have more graces than non Christians. So yes it is important to tell people about Jesus :) God bless.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by swdee
Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.
Yeah, that's a great idea. And while we're at it, if we close down all of the hospitals, nobody will ever get sick and die!

Look, I understand that, as an atheist, it's your job to sit around and make up straw men and silly arguments but don't you think it would make you look a little less silly if you actually took a minute to find out what Christianity teaches?

The Bible never says that people get a free pass because they've never heard the Gospel.

To the contrary, the book of Romans tells us that no man will have an excuse when he stands before God because, although they might not have had the details of the Gospel, God did give them two witnesses (the external witness of creation and the internal witness of the conscience) to testify to them.

They're just as culpable for their sins as anyone else is.
Good point.

Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 
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Angelquill

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Your question does, indeed, sound as if you are looking for a debate. There are forums for that on this site.

To answer your question...
Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this."

First of all, I'm not sure that most Christians do believe that. Nor am I sure that I do, either. In any case, it is a guess, at best.

We do, however, know that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father without Him. We are quite sure that those who will come to Him will find their way to Heaven.

Your way, we are definitely condemning our own selves to hell, as we know the Way, the Truth, and the Life..." but out of some crack brained notion that we know what He's doing better than He does, we refuse to share it...

:doh:
 
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ebia

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Good point.

Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Not enough dead threads in GT for your zombie hobby?
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.

Im afraid you have a misconception with the true Christian Faith. God will find a way for anyone to find Jesus so long as that person is willing to move closer to God the Creator. He wants people saved so they can be in heaven with him far more than anything else...even the zeal of Christians do.

There are SO few people now who have not heard of Jesus or have not seen a Christian Cross somewhere , that virtually the entire World has been notified in some manner. For the remote Jungle people in the world , we send Missionaries to them . The 4 corners of the World have just about been covered with the saving Gospel News by now.

What is occurring more today , is, people being REMINDED of the folly they are partaking in by continuously shunning God from their lives so they can be their own god and not surrender authority to their very own Creator who is the Creator of the Universe.

What is going to be your life focus ? : Self or God....only you can decide that. Eternity is at stake and can start at any moment for you, so, please choose wisely and remember....no choice is a choice for keeping you on the throne as a god. Regards.

P.S. I used to be a professed Atheist of many years. Would you like ot hear my story on how I left it based on the truth of modern science without even opening the cover of the Bible ?
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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@ TheyCallMeDavid

I don't know about anyone else, but I would be fascinated to read your story about how you came to your faith.

Oh, and I am very thrilled to embrace a new brother in Christ. I may be a bit late, but, :hug:Welcome to the Family:hug:

Hello. Ive now been a Christ Follower for quite a number of years just for clarification...but I did have many years as a professed Atheist . Here is my conversion story :

'I used to be a person that embraced
atheism/humanism for many adult years and who bought into the cultures
mantra of sexual
hedonism , going for the gusto in life, and doing virtually anything I
felt like doing to satisfy the urges and impulses in an effort to find
ultimate fulfillment , happiness, and joy. Everything I tried was
short lived , destructive to myself and others, and essentially
superficial . A g/f I had at the time started taking me to her
families church and over the period of a year, I started to realize
that life was more than just going on a personal feeding frenzy of
joyseeking , material acquisition, prestige, fancy vacations, and the
like . During this same time period, I heavily investigated the
scientific evidences for our personal theistic Creator , for the Bible
being the most accurate historical document in existence which gives
eye witness evidence to the life, death, burial, and ressurection of
Jesus Christ who claimed to be God in the flesh. I started reading
books by popular notable Researchers/ Scientists / and Philosophers /
and Law Professors such as Prof. Simon Greenleaf who is THE worlds
foremost Law Professor in Court of Law Evidence techniques that put
the New Testament to a stringent mock court trial as encouraged by his
students...and based on the evidence became a Christian from an
Agnostic. As I surrendered bit by bit my life to God and his control
eventually leading me to become a dedicated Christian , I noticed my
heart, will, emotions , desires taking a drastic turn toward the
things of God , living righteously, caring and serving Others, and
loosing my quest for self centered lifestyles. Like so many others
testify, God reconstructed my life from the inside out. This is only
part of what GOd gives to those who choose him over the worlds idea of
living ...in addition, I have the assurance of knowing where im going
after this brief earthly interlude , I have been reconciled to God
thru what Christ has done and my sins are not counted against me (and
there are many) , and the lure of sin (what our culture promotes for
narcissism) doesnt have any power over me. My life is filled with
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness , goodness and physical death for
me will be a welcomed graduation day because there is no unknown when
death comes knocking -- Christ conquered that too on the cross for me
(and you) .
That is how my life has been changed by the real and living Christ'.
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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What i found appealing about atheism when I considered myself an atheist :

1. Nearly all my friends were atheists so i had much commaraderie .
2. If there were no binding absolute moral laws to live by, then it
offered great freedom of lifestyle choices (which i capitalized on) .
3. No one was in ultimate authority over me.
4. I wasnt owned by anyone higher than self which led to great
autonomy.
5. I was at the center of the Universe, figuratively speaking .
6. All my Teachers in school (whom i greatly respected and
enjoyed) taught atheistic ideologies / worldview .
7. As Evolutionist Julian Huxley said in a TV Interview :' Having no personal Creator
(viz.God) , coincided with my sexual mores' .

What I found convincing about atheism , at the time :

1. I looked upon my Teachers and School Text Books as virtually
infallable and thus a very reliable truth source , so i accepted all
they taught without question .
2. Atheisms idelogies and constructs... from a worldview and from
sociology.... best fit in with my daily lifestyle choices and
philosophies for having fun.

What made me change my views about atheism :

1. Some atheistic ideologies were impossible to live out , truthfully
and without being hypocritical (ie: moral relativism) .
2. I became aware that the atheistic ideologies as represented by our
American Culture , were destructive and dangerous to people....and
this concerned me as i was getting deeper into them.
3. I found it took an incredible amount of faith to believe in
atheistic origins of the universe and first life on earth.
4. I found that an atheistic material universe (materialism) is not
capable of things like reason, logic, truth, love, freewill .
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a
few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
on each other.
6. I discovered in myself that I wanted to follow the truth
regardless of where it led, instead of patronizing myself into
following something I had no more confidence in.
7. I heavily investigated Theism from a scientific standpoint
including the remarkable design and engineering of things ...and
concluded that it is absurd to think it all just happened by chance
without a shred of purpose or reason.
8. I heavily investigated Christianity as well as all other major
world religions, and discovered the New Testament of the Bible to
offer more accurate historical evidences for Christ , his
ressurection, and what he claimed about himself....that it was very
compelling. I read about THE worlds most famous expert on Court of
Law evidential techniques who put the New Testament to a very
stringent test, who traded in his agnosticism to become a Christ
Follower based purely on the scientific and historical
evidences ...and I found this very compelling.
9. I discovered that modern scientific discoveries are proving the
Bible correct .
 
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Angelquill

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Hello. Ive now been a Christ Follower for quite a number of years just for clarification...but I did have many years as a professed Atheist . Here is my conversion story :

'I used to be a person that embraced
atheism/humanism for many adult years and who bought into the cultures
mantra of sexual
hedonism , going for the gusto in life, and doing virtually anything I
felt like doing to satisfy the urges and impulses in an effort to find
ultimate fulfillment , happiness, and joy. Everything I tried was
short lived , destructive to myself and others, and essentially
superficial . A g/f I had at the time started taking me to her
families church and over the period of a year, I started to realize
that life was more than just going on a personal feeding frenzy of
joyseeking , material acquisition, prestige, fancy vacations, and the
like . During this same time period, I heavily investigated the
scientific evidences for our personal theistic Creator , for the Bible
being the most accurate historical document in existence which gives
eye witness evidence to the life, death, burial, and ressurection of
Jesus Christ who claimed to be God in the flesh. I started reading
books by popular notable Researchers/ Scientists / and Philosophers /
and Law Professors such as Prof. Simon Greenleaf who is THE worlds
foremost Law Professor in Court of Law Evidence techniques that put
the New Testament to a stringent mock court trial as encouraged by his
students...and based on the evidence became a Christian from an
Agnostic. As I surrendered bit by bit my life to God and his control
eventually leading me to become a dedicated Christian , I noticed my
heart, will, emotions , desires taking a drastic turn toward the
things of God , living righteously, caring and serving Others, and
loosing my quest for self centered lifestyles. Like so many others
testify, God reconstructed my life from the inside out. This is only
part of what GOd gives to those who choose him over the worlds idea of
living ...in addition, I have the assurance of knowing where im going
after this brief earthly interlude , I have been reconciled to God
thru what Christ has done and my sins are not counted against me (and
there are many) , and the lure of sin (what our culture promotes for
narcissism) doesnt have any power over me. My life is filled with
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness , goodness and physical death for
me will be a welcomed graduation day because there is no unknown when
death comes knocking -- Christ conquered that too on the cross for me
(and you) .
That is how my life has been changed by the real and living Christ'.

David, I am sitting here with tears of joy rolling down my cheeks. Thank you for posting your wonderful story, and, what the heck, HUGE hugs for you:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:and maybe even a "holy kiss" or two:kiss::kiss:

Your story thrilled me to the very core of my heart. I will be telling others about you, and you can be sure, we will meet, as another dear friend of mine says "up top"...
I am so looking forward to giving you that HUGE hug in person!!
 
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