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One argument that will destroy christianity

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swdee

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.
 

dinonum

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I get what your saying, really I do. The big issue though is that is disobeying God directly, which is a sin. God wasn't joking when He said we were to go and preach the Gospels, therefore that is what we are commanded to do. Plus, then that takes away any human choice.

I know many Atheists who claim they don't want to go to Heaven, so shouldn't they get to make that choice rather than be left in the darK?
 
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ephraimanesti

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.
MY FRIEND,

The flaw in your "logic"--if "logic" is what you wish to call it--is that God clearly states through Peter, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."(Acts 4:12) In other words, without an acceptance of Jesus as God's Christ, Salvation isn't possible.

What about those, as you mention above, who have, for whatever reason, not been exposed to this Truth and given an opportunity to choose to either reject or to follow our Lord? Scripture states that these people will be given an opportunity to do so after death. For example, Peter states that Jesus preached the Gospel to those in the afterlife--"For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through Whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."(I Peter 3:18-20)

This process continues until as we speak until everyone will have had the opportunity to made the choice God offers to all between Salvation and damnation. God is a God of justice and mercy, not an arbitrary dictator!

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim
 
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Van

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Hi Swdee, I think your view is wrong on several counts.

"Most Christians do not believe God would send people to hell, if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unfair." All people are condemned to hell because everyone is a sinner. In hell, God dishes out perfect justice, no more and no less. If you have sinned a lot, you suffer a lot. Nothing unfair about it.

"just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell." They deserve justice, and that is what they get. But because they never heard about Jesus, they did not have an opportunity to obtain mercy. Therefore, born again believers have a job to do, to be ambassadors for Christ, begging the lost to be reconciled to God.
 
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aiki

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

No, I don't. The Bible tells us that, except for those who, because of age (unborn, newborn, or so young as to be unable to comprehend the gospel) or mental disability (severe Down's Syndrome, etc.) are excluded, all people are "without excuse" before God.

Romans 1:18-23
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

God will be found by anyone, anywhere who is truly seeking Him.

James 4:8
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.


Proverbs 8:17
17 I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me.

Jeremiah 29:13
13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.


For an example, check out the testimony of Afshin Javid:

VIDEO - Afshin Javid

There are, of course, other stories I have heard from missionaries and pastors of the remarkable way God reached out to those who were seeking Him. God is, as always, as good as His Word.

Its important to note, I think, in the passage from Romans above, that people "suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness." The implication here is that there is a fundamental awareness in every person of God's existence, which people suppress, or push out of their minds and hearts. It isn't that some people are completely ignorant of the Creator, but rather that, having some idea of His existence they choose to deny it, or warp it in accordance with their own imagination.

No one stands before God truly innocent - not even those I excepted earlier. Every person is born under the curse of Sin. "There is none righteous, no, not one." (Ro. 3:10) Every person has a sin nature that is soon evidenced. How often I have seen young children who could not yet speak expressing unabashed selfishness. Snatching things from other children, hitting and screaming when the same is done to them - the power of sin manifests very early in we humans. Consequently, God will judge every person, according to what they knew (or could understand) of Him, and no one, save those who stand before Him clothed in the righteousness of Christ or who were unable, by reason of age or mental disability to comprehend the gospel, will escape His wrath.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

Mark 16:15-16
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Acts 4:12
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."


1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.


Or am I wrong? Let me know.

Profoundly, yes. See above.

Peace.
 
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drich0150

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Actually no, what Christians believe is that after our first sin we all automatically deserve Hell, despite what we believe. It is only through Jesus that we find mercy from what we deserve.

Hell is the destiny for all who sin. Jesus is the only way to escape what it is we are destined for.
The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Heaven isn't the alternative to Hell. Heaven is the place for all who Love God can openly and freely do so... If your looking to go to Heaven to simply escape Hell then you will only find disappointment in Heaven even if you got in..

So the question would be why would anyone want to goto Heaven if the didn't know God/Jesus?
 
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ebia

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.
You completely misunderstand what Jesus and Christianity is all about. It's not about sending some people to hell as an arbitrary punishment.

It is about God putting right everything that is wrong with the world. Our falling short of what we are called to be has and does mess up creation. In the call of Abraham God began the plan to sort all that out. His plan came to its climax in Jesus. The call of Christians is to carry on that story; to become part of that putting to rights. So that eventually creation will be fully restored and suffering and death will be done away with. People have to be given the choice of becoming part of that Kingdom plan or not.
 
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newbeliever02072005

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MOD HAT ON

Attention, Please!


I have deleted several posts from this thread for the following reasons

Number ONE

This is not a debate forum.
This is a forum where non-Christians are encouraged to ask questions about those aspects of the Christian faith which seem hard to understand or accept, and where Christians can enter into discussion with them on these questions.



Number TWO

If you are a non-Christian that is not the OP of this thread, please start a new thread with your question (you are allowed to link back this thread for reference)

We recognize that real seekers are looking for real answers, and the first reply given may be insufficient to achieve this. It is acceptable for the Original Poster (OP) to probe the answers given, and to continue the discussion on lines which help to clarify their understanding of the Christian faith. If another non-Christian seeker wishes to ask questions about the Christian faith, they may start their own thread. No more than one non-Christian (the OP) may post in a thread.



Please be respectful of the forum rules.

If you have any questions about why you don't see your post(s) here, feel free to contact me via PM.



MOD HAT OFF
 
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andreha

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.

My bible says tha Jesus told us to go and share the gospel with all. I'm happy to stick with that. After all, being a Christian is a relationship with God. There are such wonderful benefits in obeying His will. Why go through this life alone, when you could have the Almighty Creator on your side? As you get to know Jesus, you'll find that He is the best friend you can ever have. Seriously.:amen:
 
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Bro_Sam

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.

Yeah, that's a great idea. And while we're at it, if we close down all of the hospitals, nobody will ever get sick and die!

Look, I understand that, as an atheist, it's your job to sit around and make up straw men and silly arguments but don't you think it would make you look a little less silly if you actually took a minute to find out what Christianity teaches?

The Bible never says that people get a free pass because they've never heard the Gospel.

To the contrary, the book of Romans tells us that no man will have an excuse when he stands before God because, although they might not have had the details of the Gospel, God did give them two witnesses (the external witness of creation and the internal witness of the conscience) to testify to them.

They're just as culpable for their sins as anyone else is.
 
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freeport

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.


Yes, you are incorrect -- and it doesn't matter even if a majority does believe something, it matters what reality is.


God is real, that is reality. Anyone else's reality is a subjective diversion from that.

Jesus came to save, not condemn. Sent to save the world, not to destroy it.


Death and Hell are defaults of man's existence, not the other way around.

We are called to escape it by faith in God through Jesus.


That message is for everyone.


And it should not be thought that death and Hell are beyond one's mortal coil at any one time... for all who are not in Life are in death, and many in that death are living a Hell on earth.
 
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christandisrael

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God is a Father. Now, if we didn't have a Father, and we did not have order, people would destroy each other and we would have everlasting choas. Now, for heaven, hell, and discipline. That is why the three are here. With discipline, you are always on the right track. And we need discipline, or we all would run aloof and destroy each other. A would without order is dangerous. We need heaven and hell, because God needs to make these rules in order to have order. Basically, follow them (trust Christ) or go to hell.:preach:
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

I know of a person who was stung by box gelly fish and clinically died. In the process of dying God him self, alone, with no one else around, spoke to the man and showed him the LORDs prayer. When it came to the part about "Forgive us as we forgive those who have sinned against us" God asked him to forgive a man who had ignored his pleas for help earlier in the day as he was trying to get to hospital. He did, and God forgave him and he became a born again christian, as he was dying. God latter rose him back to life in the hospitals morge, so that his family did not think he went to hell. He shares the full story at Ian McCormack - Heaven Hell and the Box Jellyfish
 
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swdee

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Yeah, that's a great idea. And while we're at it, if we close down all of the hospitals, nobody will ever get sick and die!

Look, I understand that, as an atheist, it's your job to sit around and make up straw men and silly arguments but don't you think it would make you look a little less silly if you actually took a minute to find out what Christianity teaches?

The Bible never says that people get a free pass because they've never heard the Gospel.

To clarify, I never said I was an atheist (which I'm not). That's judging people before you know them.
So please tell me, do you think people who have never had a chance to hear about the gospel of Jesus Christ will go to hell?
 
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Jpark

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Hell is real. No true Christian can deny that. God dictates that whatever doctrine the Bible speaks of and affirms is true. This is what the apostle Paul says of God's judgment:

Romans 3:5-7 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteous of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? [God's holiness requires that He judge sin] For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

The answer:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
 
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calidog

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Most christians believe that God will not send people to hell if they had never heard of Jesus, because that would be unjust and unfair, as just because they were unfortunate to be born in a culture where they don't ever hear about it they don't deserve to go to hell.
I'm sure you agree with this.

Ok so stop telling people about Jesus!
Like other christians say if noone knows about it everyone will go to heaven.

The only way to make everybody go to heaven, after all you don't want anyone to burn in hell do you, is to shut down chrisanity completely.

Or am I wrong? Let me know.
wrong
show us one person above the age of accountability, twenty will work, that hasn't heard of Jesus
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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swdee said:
So please tell me, do you think people who have never had a chance to hear about the gospel of Jesus Christ will go to hell?

They will hear the gospel. God will see to that.
 
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