Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Richard]

You Can't Lose Salvation People !!!

 

[Crispie]

If you truely believe, then you recieve the seal of the holy spirit, and are guided by God. I cant see how you can stop truely 100% believing in God as long as you have the Spirit of God guiding you, no matter how small that guidence may be. (the Holy Spirit is in fact proof to all who are saved that God is really true and will fuflill his promise)

 

[All4one]

Your being feed false doctrines if you don't believe once saved always saved.... your taking the verses out of context .... if you are saved you cannot lose salvation

I would like a person to believe once saved always saved to find me a few verses (besides the "saved by grace verse") that comply with this idea. We are saved by Gods grace in that He forgives sin. Then when/if you can do that find someone in the bible who was not living for God but was promised salvation. Yes the comment that a person who is truly saved will not turn away from God seems appealing but I have met and heard of many people who served God open handedly and with all love and obediance and then turned away from Him... so while they were living for God they were not really saved if they are not living for Him now? Then I ask how do you know you are saved and will not, at some point, turn away? Can anyone say they are saved if this is true?

More then anything satan has taken this term and fooled Gods people. He not only tells those who are saved that they are not and accuses them he also tells those who are not saved that they are. Being saved is not some kind of magical stamp placed on a person that cannot be erased. Can you honestly say that we have free will if we can accept God's spirit but not reject it?

In Christs Love,
All4one

PS. I have noticed more then ever that people that believe this statement slip away from Gods purpose and love then those who do not... reason being if we believe this we have no motivation to seek God because we already think we are fine and dandy.

 

[All4one]

I am sorry to the non-Christians in this room that they have to see Christians arguing over what is true. Be assured that living for God is a daily thing not a once and for all mystical tattoo.

In Christ,
All4one

 

[All4one]

As for the sheep explanation a little while ago. Please define who Gods sheep are. Are they not His children? Thus, are not all humans His children?

 

[All4one]

(the Holy Spirit is in fact proof to all who are saved that God is really true and will fuflill his promise)

Look at Galatians 5:19-21... These are the fruits of an evil spirit that WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Now look on down to Galatians 5:22-23... These have the Holy Spirit. Yes we do have the seal of God as the spirit but the fact is that we can loose that.. Im sure we all know a "christian" or two that were on fire but now produce the evil fruits. Or maybe some that were "saved" then went right on with the evil doings the next day. A person can tell weather they have Gods spirit or not and so can other people... You will first be known by your love and then the fruits of Gods spirit. If you do not have these things you have no seal or no spirit of God. You cannot produce the evil fruits and still inherit the kingdom of God... to say otherwise is to contradict the bible.

I would be careful teaching the "once saved always saved" idea because I would hate to get to heaven and God say "you told them they were okay while I was speaking to them 'depart from me you who work iniquity' I never knew you". Look at it this way, when Christ lives within us He "sup's" on the fruits that we produce... no fruit, no Christ... He must have nourishment.

In Christs Love,
Sorry if I have become redundant,
All4one

 

[SPALATIN]

If you truely believe, then you recieve the seal of the holy spirit, and are guided by God. I cant see how you can stop truely 100% believing in God as long as you have the Spirit of God guiding you, no matter how small that guidence may be. (the Holy Spirit is in fact proof to all who are saved that God is really true and will fuflill his promise)

We have to look first at the nature of man before Genesis 3. Before he fell from Grace, man had full fellowship with God. he walked with him daily in the Garden and they were intimate. Man had free will in the Garden, but God did limit him from 2 trees. The tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life. Now we all liken the serpent to the adversary Stn. He is described as the craftiest and wiliest of all God's creatures. He questions Eve "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
Eve answers him saying "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

The serpent replies "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Now we know what happens after this. Many like to take this account as literal and others see it as allegorical. I think it is both. I think the account happened as it is written but there are many allegorical points to be made here. The trees are located in the "middle" of the Garden. That is where Christ wants us to put him in the center. And when we took a bite out of the fruit we were shutting ourselves away from that center.

We became self-centered. That is the state we were in from the moment man sinned. We are all self-centered. "Look out for number 1" and "What's in it for me" are things we often hear people say. Did Christ take away this part of us, I don't believe he did. I believe that he came to reconcile the world to him. We know the word reconcile to be a word we use in accounting which means to make good or right. When we balance a checkbook we are making it right with the Bank so that we neither owe or are owed.

Others use the word redeem which means to make good on a debt paying down the debt. Christ did this by the shedding of his blood on the cross.

Others like the word salvation which means that we have been availed of our true destination for sinfulness and that is hell. All the words are correct about what Christ has done for us. We are unable as sinners to do anything on our own to gain our redemption, reconciliation or salvation from God. He has done it all through his Son. We come to faith only by hearing the word of God. In our faith we are baptized and through our Baptism we receive Grace from God that surpasses all understanding.

But we still have the "old Adam" in us and that is apparent anytime we find ourselves shutting God off because we are ashamed of what we have done or we close down communication because we know we are sinning and know that he won't give us permission. Many say they have Backslid which means they have given in to the fleshly desires. This shows that we have the ability to run away from God much as the word draws us closer too him.

Christ told his disciples as he was washing their feet that they didn't choose him, but he chose them. He was speaking to the part of us that knows if we didn't have faith in him we would not choose to follow him. As Christians we are both Saint because of our faith in him and Sinner because of our want to feed our own desires.

Scott

 

[All4one]

SLS- Due to my dumbfoundedness...lol... Which standpoint do you take?

 

[begoten son lover_1]

1)I understand your answer to 1 but I thought God had won the battle! If the Devil has so much power then one of the following must be true.

2) The devil has more power than god
3) God lets the devil do these things

1) God did win

2)no

3)also no

the reson for the two nos are because this:

when jesus died on the cross he did win but you eather give your self to God or to the devil. God will put you though tests and they are his way of telling who really trusts him.

in him

begoten

 

[JohnnyV]

Once you are saved, Jesus is your Lord. No, Jesus has never lost any sheep, he knows where we all are and what all we are doing. The thing is, sheep have small brains, they get lost and leave their master for 'greener pastures' .
Do you honestly think a Christian can live a life exactly the same as a non Christian and escape punishment? Why would they be spared and not the sinner??
The ones who believe they can ask forgiveness once and never have to again are the ones being decieved. Sorry but that is what I get out of the bible, not what someone told me but what I Understand the Bible to say.

 

[stray bullet]

You Can't Lose Salvation People !!!

Does this mean I can go and sin all I want to now and not lose salvation?

Isn't that like giving a kid a credit card and telling them no matter what, they will never have to suffer the debt of it, it'll always be forgiven no matter what? How would that encourage responsible use of it?

 

[stray bullet]

No, Jesus has never lost any sheep,

"As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore." - John 6:66

 

[JohnnyV]

true stray Bullet, THEY withdrew, Jesus did not! He knew where they were.

 

[stray bullet]

true stray Bullet, THEY withdrew, Jesus did not! He knew where they were.

I wasn't not asserting that, I was arguing against the claim that "Jesus never lost any sheep". Jesus is always looking for the lost sheep, that doesn't mean they don't leave.

 

[Asar'el]

Does this mean I can go and sin all I want to now and not lose salvation?

If you think you can 'sin all you want', you are not saved. Simple.

Isn't that like giving a kid a credit card and telling them no matter what, they will never have to suffer the debt of it, it'll always be forgiven no matter what? How would that encourage responsible use of it?

God alone knows His elect. From their actions, we might have an opinion about someone's salvation - but we see not the heart of the matter; He does. There is no list you might look up to check your name, declare 'I am elect, woohoo, I can start sinning now' - and I tell you the truth, anyone that believes they can sin with impunity are most definetly NOT among the elect.

The seed in shallow ground grows up as a healthy plant; it only withers at a later time. Even so, some may, for a time, put forth a pretty flower - but only God knows their depth. That is why we are told in 2 Peter 1:10

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

By obeying the commandments we do this; when we sin, it may be a stumble; but blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (unbelief), gross error, unrepentant sin, all these things are evidence that election was not present, not that it was lost. Be not deceived - God never is.

How absurd to think Christ's precious blood was wasted on some; or that you may bounce in-and-out of salvation like some yo-yo...

 

[SPALATIN]

SLS- Due to my dumbfoundedness...lol... Which standpoint do you take?

What do you mean which standpoint? I am saying that though a man be in Christ he still has sinful inclinations and has the potential to reject Christ and therefore be in Apostasy.

 

[All4one]

I was just wondering if you think a person can loose their salvation.

 

[JohnnyV]

I wasn't not asserting that, I was arguing against the claim that "Jesus never lost any sheep". Jesus is always looking for the lost sheep, that doesn't mean they don't leave.

Jesus never lost anyone, he knows where we all are, those men turned and 'withdrew' from him. Its not the same thing as losing someone.

& Yes a man can lose his salvation by turning his back on God and denying Christ. Look at Judas for example, he was with Jesus, saw the miracles, was a Follower (Christian) but he turned his back on the gift Jesus gave him for love of money and approval of man.

 

[Krispy_Cream15]

I belive once your saved and you start falling away from God you can become unsaved again becuase if you ask Jesus to come into your heart and than the next day you change your mind and go worship the devil you are not saved anymore and you don't really love Jesus if you go and worship the devil or who knows wat else

 

[All4one]