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Once saved, always saved?

tonychanyt

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The English word "save" or "salvation" has many meanings.
It has at least the following meanings:

1. It could mean being physically rescued at a point in time situation (Exodus 14:13, H3444, יְשׁוּעָה yeshuah). In this case, you may need to be rescued again. You can be rescued or saved multiple times. The only places in the OT where yeshuah is used unambiguously as saving people from sins are in Eze 36:29 and 37:23.

2. It could mean being accepted officially by a certain church/denomination. When you lose your membership, you lose this salvation.

3. It could describe a shallow Christian who is a Christian in name only (1 John 2:19). He looks like a Christian and talks like a Christian. Instead of serving God, he wants God to serve him. After a while, he goes away because he no longer finds God useful.

4. It could describe a serious Christian. He thinks he is in the faith (2Co 13:5, Col 1:23) and performs Christian works sincerely for years but departs from the faith eventually (1 Tim 4:1).

5. It could mean that your name is written in the Book of Life. Later, God may erase or at least threaten to erase that name and you may lose this type of salvation, Ex 32:32, Rev 3:5.

6. Finally, it could mean being saved from the physical now onto eternity. In this case, it requires the Paraclete to dwell in you presently. You cannot lose the Paraclete in you. This is the concept of being born of the Spirit. 1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The word "save" or "salvation" is polysemantic. Depending on your definition of salvation, you can definitely lose your salvation.

The question that one should ask is not "Once saved, always saved?". The better question is whether you have the Paraclete Indwelling Spirit in you.

Can you lose your salvation?

Yes, in many many ways: John 15:2, Romans 11:22, Hebrews 6:4, 1 Corinthians 15:2.

Can you lose your Paraclete?

No, I don't think so. The Paraclete does what he does. He chooses to dwell in a person] by making a direct connection with the person's human spirit permanently.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The phrasing of once saved, always saved is problematic.

I tend to start from people being born again by the Holy Spirit as a result of a spiritual transformation.

Stating someone can die after being born in that matter implies God can die too.
 
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d taylor

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...Salvation is a poor way of stating what God is offering a person. Why, because salvation in The Bible, depending on the context may not be addressing salvation from hell. Often in many verse the salvation being addressed is a physical salvation, of the born again child of God. From some type of physical harm or even death, either from spiritual attacks from satanic forces. Or even for the born again child of God, physical discipline or judgment (which includes the premature taking of their life) from God, for being disobedient


God is offering people His free gift of Eternal Life to humankind and once a person receives God free gift of Eternal Life and becomes a born again child of God. They can not lose the Life of God, given to them at the moment of belief in Jesus.

There are no verse stating a born again child of God can lose the Life of God, cross back over from life to death and become an un-born person.
 
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tonychanyt

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Gregory Thompson

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The trouble is that there is no objective operational definition of born again. Check this.
Objective definitions are an issue when it comes to God. This is because God is not an object, but the creator of all objects.

The issue with this information request is similar for the request to "prove God" when people connect to Him through trust.

This approach to seek an objective operational definition is not always compatible with what faith is.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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How can you lose your salvation yet still maintain His Holy Spirit? This is not possible. Salvation is through His Holy Spirit. Blessings.
 
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tonychanyt

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How can you lose your salvation yet still maintain His Holy Spirit? This is not possible. Salvation is through His Holy Spirit. Blessings.
Right

Is it possible to have salvation without the Holy Spirit?
 
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tonychanyt

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No it is not possible.
Blessings.
English Standard Version, 14:13 And Moses said to the people, “Fear not, stand firm, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will work for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall never see again.

Were these Israelites saved?
 
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oikonomia

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It strikes me how many, many conversaions among Christans gravitate to the subjects -
Who is saved? How saved are the saved? Is your "saved" secure or insecure?

Brothers and sisters in the Lord seem to gravitate again and again to these basic questions around being saved.

I would contribute once again merely stating, according to the New Testament -
I WAS saved.
I am also BEING saved.
I also WILL BE saved.

There is a salvation of my spirit which took place the moment I was regenerated.
There is the life long salvation of my soul which is transformation, conformation, and sanctification.
There will in the future be the salvation of my body in transfiguration.

So my tripartite being is to be saved completely.

And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23)

There is a saving in regeneration.
There is a saving in transformation.
There is a saving in transfiguration.

I invite someone to sing along with me a singable version of 1 Thess. 5:23 -
 

tonychanyt

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oikonomia

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Some call it justification.

Some call it glorification.
I can see that being born again is equivalent to Justification. The human spirit is made life "because of righteosness."
Romans 8:10b - ". . . the spirit is life because of righteousness. "


Righteousness then was imputed for the human spirit to be made the divine life in regeneration.

I do not as easily say this regeneration is glorfication.
I more tend to teach that the glorfication is the transfiguration of the body.


we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory, according to His operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself. (Phil 3:20b,21)


There is certainly between the regeneration of our spirit and the glorification in transfiguration of our body a certain moral glory as the soul is undergoing transformation. For Paul say by the transforming Lord Spirit we must be travel from glory to glory by the Lord Spirit.

And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:17,18)


If we are wise and if we are normal we should be eager to log more and more time beholding and reflecting the Lord in our spirit.
For with the passage of time He will transform our soul from one degree of "glory" to another degree of "glory" . . . on and on.
This crucial process has its goal to transform us into the image of Christ.

It is important to the enjoyment of the reward of the next age.

I have a song on Second Corinthians 3:17,18 as well. Enjoy the around the living room sing along on it.

 
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tonychanyt

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I do not as easily say this regeneration is glorfication.
I more tend to teach that the glorfication is the transfiguration of the body.
Right, in fact, there was in my post

As a separate issue:
There is certainly between the regeneration of our spirit
How would you justify the term regeneration from the Bible verses?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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No, not the same salvation. They were saved from slavery. In those days before Jesus Christ of Nazareth the remnant of Israel were saved by faith.
Blessings.
 
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tonychanyt

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No, not the same salvation. They were saved from slavery. In those days before Jesus Christ of Nazareth the remnant of Israel were saved by faith.
Blessings.
Right. However, the Hebrew word does not make that distinction that you make in your use of the English word "salvation". Oxford English dictionary does not make that distinction either.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Right. However, the Hebrew word does not make that distinction that you make in your use of the English word "salvation". Oxford English dictionary does not make that distinction either.
The Hebrew word has many distinctions. We just need to discern correctly through His Spirit.
Blessings.
 
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tonychanyt

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The Hebrew word has many distinctions. We just need to discern correctly through His Spirit.
Blessings.
I am not talking about how you or I use the word.

Do you allow others to use the English word "salvation" in a different sense from the way you use it through the Holy Spirit? In other words, do you allow others to interpret the same verse differently from the way you understand it through His Spirit?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I am not in the position to allow anyone any interpretation. His Holy Spirit leads us in all truth.
 
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