Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Spared from what is the question? "Cut off " in what sense? For that, please take the full New Testament teaching on salvation.It is interesting because you identify the "grafted branches" as "believing gentiles". Notice the scripture clearly states that these "branches" will not be spared if they no longer believe. If they never truly believed and were never truly cheistians in the first place, why were they ever grafted in the first place?
Hebrews 10Shalom,
Read John 15:1-6, now look at the following verses:
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the vintner. 2 He cuts off every branch that does not produce fruit in me, and he cuts back every branch that does produce fruit, so that it might produce more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of what I’ve spoken to you.Now, read Romans 11:17-22 then think about the following:
4 Abide in me, and I will abide in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. The one who abides in me while I abide in him produces much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Unless a person abides in me, he is thrown away like a pruned branch and dries up. People gather such branches, throw them into a fire, and they are burned up.
17 Now if some of the branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive branch, have been grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not boast about being better than the other branches. If you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were cut off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 That’s right! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly will not spare you, either.
22 Consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness toward you—if you continue receiving his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off.
In John's gospel, the plant is a vine plant and we are branches and Yeshua is the vine. In Romans the plant is a fig tree and it is speaking of Israel as a body and implies that it is Yeshua. In both parables, we are the branches and in both parables we are in the Messiah and partake of the life of the plant which is THE HOLY SPIRIT. In both parables, the branches that have no fruit are cut off.
This implies quite clearly and without contradiction that a saved person with the SPIRIT OF GOD can be cut off.
Now, read Revelation 3:5 and ask yourself why Yeshua mentions not being blotted out of the book of life. Because it is possible to be blotted out.
5 The person who overcomes in this way will wear white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the Book of Life. I will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and his angels.
The question we must now ask ourselves is:
Do we still believe that we cannot lose our salvation after being given THE SPIRIT OF GOD? If so, what does the above verses mean if not what it says?
Hebrews 10: q26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,Shalom,
Read John 15:1-6, now look at the following verses:
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the vintner. 2 He cuts off every branch that does not produce fruit in me, and he cuts back every branch that does produce fruit, so that it might produce more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of what I’ve spoken to you.Now, read Romans 11:17-22 then think about the following:
4 Abide in me, and I will abide in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. The one who abides in me while I abide in him produces much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Unless a person abides in me, he is thrown away like a pruned branch and dries up. People gather such branches, throw them into a fire, and they are burned up.
17 Now if some of the branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive branch, have been grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not boast about being better than the other branches. If you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were cut off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 That’s right! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly will not spare you, either.
22 Consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness toward you—if you continue receiving his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off.
In John's gospel, the plant is a vine plant and we are branches and Yeshua is the vine. In Romans the plant is a fig tree and it is speaking of Israel as a body and implies that it is Yeshua. In both parables, we are the branches and in both parables we are in the Messiah and partake of the life of the plant which is THE HOLY SPIRIT. In both parables, the branches that have no fruit are cut off.
This implies quite clearly and without contradiction that a saved person with the SPIRIT OF GOD can be cut off.
Now, read Revelation 3:5 and ask yourself why Yeshua mentions not being blotted out of the book of life. Because it is possible to be blotted out.
5 The person who overcomes in this way will wear white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the Book of Life. I will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and his angels.
The question we must now ask ourselves is:
Do we still believe that we cannot lose our salvation after being given THE SPIRIT OF GOD? If so, what does the above verses mean if not what it says?
What life do you have if you are no longer part of the true vine (lifted up or cut), Yeshua? Nonsense.You are ignoring the text. Look at the text within context and you get your interpretation right.
How many so called "Christians" actually follow Him? Live their lives as He would have them do?
That is why Christ Himself said that many would call on His name but He would not know them.
Why do you think that Paul repeatedly stated that the race must be run to the end?
Anyone can walk away from Christ due to laziness, arrogance or whatever, and doing so they lose their salvation.
If he elects someone, it presumes that there would otherwise be a chance that they would NOT be among the saved. But if everyone is going to be saved, regardless of anything and everything, the whole point of making an election is set aside. "The Elect" would be....everyone!
I would think, given God's supreme purity and perfect holiness that even the slightest whiff of sin would be sufficient to exclude one from His family - if that were actually possible once one has been adopted into it. An impossible situation in which to function as a child of God, no?
Selah.
Why do you keep saying this? Can God not elect people to be saved for a purpose and not give everyone else an opportunity to be saved? Key word here is "opportunity". I never once said or implied that God will save everyone "regardless of anything and everything". Please show me something in scripture that specifically says that there is no opportunity for someone to be saved and that it is only the elect who will be saved. Why is the door for salvation closed for the non-elect who desire salvation?
And yet if they believe a false doctrine that teaches one has to work in order to earn salvation, they would have to accept they can work ill and lose their salvation.It might be said that most of those who don't believe in OSAS believe in salvation that is at least partially earned by works. It wouldn't be correct to say that it's all who don't, however.
Indeed. Scriptures tell us when we repent and find faith in Christ through Gods grace that God remembers our sins no more. That would be a bit odd if God did not remember our sins anymore when we repented, but then would tally them against us once we're saved.Yes. I would also think that when our sins were imputed to Christ all of out past, present and FUTURE sin were imputed.
Agreed, however why would He then say vv this vv and not give everyone an opportunity to come to repentance so that they would not perish?You have to look at it this way...everyone deserves hell. Everyone. God isn't required to save a single person and would in His rights to let every single human being die and go to hell. That would be justice.
Being God is the Father whether people know him or not, that creator of the human race that first breathed a living soul into the Adam, that kind of thinking speaks horribly of God and his character.You have to look at it this way...everyone deserves hell. Everyone. God isn't required to save a single person and would in His rights to let every single human being die and go to hell. That would be justice.
Then what about Hebrew 10:26-31?"Yes. I would also think that when our sins were imputed to Christ all of out past, present and FUTURE sin were imputed."
Yup. That's what Scripture teaches. (Heb. 9:12; 10:10-12; Ro. 5:15; 6:10; 1Pe. 3:18 etc.)
Selah.
Then what about Hebrew 10:26-31?
Agreed, however why would He then say vv this vv and not give everyone an opportunity to come to repentance so that they would not perish?
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
2 Peter 3:9 NIV
I am asking you. Assuming everything you are saying is accurate and christians cannot sin because all sin has been imputed, why the warning about deliberate sin? What does Hebrews 10:26-31 mean?I'm not sure what you're asking. What about this passage? Do you think it defies or contradicts the idea that Christ paid for all sin for all time? Do you think it indicates that Christ's atoning sacrifice was less than perfect? I'm not sure how you would come to this conclusion from the passage you referenced...
Selah.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?