Once Saved, Always Saved?

ScottA said:

You made your exhortation of overcoming one of putting the burden on the saved,

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If it is pertinent - re "overcoming"
in Revelation the ecclesia overcame how ?
specifically and necessarily ?
"with the word of their testimony" and the "blood of the LAMB"

and Y'SHUA MESSIAH KING SAVIOR
also said
"If you do not testify of ME before men,
NEITHER WILL I testify for you before MY FATHER".

bbbbbbb said:

Of course, anyone who knows anything about Judaism knows what the book of life is. It is the book which God keeps regarding those who will live and those who will die in a particular year. At the Day of Atonement God opens His book and blots out the names of those who will die in the coming year. Earnest prayers in the synagogues are offered to God that their particular names will not be blotted out and that they will have yet another year of life on this earth.

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Where do you get that idea from?


Quote
In Christianity and Judaism, the Book of Life(Hebrew: ספר החיים, transliterated Sefer HaChaim; Greek: βιβλίον τῆς ζωῆς Biblíon tēs Zōēs) is the book in which God records the names of every person who is destined forHeaven or the World to Come. According to the Talmud it is open on Rosh Hashanah, as is its analog for the wicked, the Book of the Dead. For this reason extra mention is made for the Book of Life during Amidah recitations during the Days of Awe, the ten days betweenRosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year, andYom Kippur, the day of atonement (the twoHigh Holidays, particularly in the prayerUnetaneh Tokef).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Life

The above teaches that the Book of Life is the record of those who have been accepted for salvation.

ScottA said:

You made your exhortation of overcoming one of putting the burden on the saved, rather than on Christ whom borne the burden for all...and even now you do not define overcoming as only by Christ, but only refer to the matter so far as the "knowledge" of Christ.

Thus my point: The topic here is not coming to the "knowledge" of Christ, which is [only] the Beginning. That is not a proper definition of what it means to be "saved." No...the topic is that of having [already] been "saved", which is the End.

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"You made your exhortation of overcoming one of putting the burden on the saved,"

Where did I make this statement?

spiritman said:

"You made your exhortation of overcoming one of putting the burden on the saved,"

Where did I make this statement?

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spiritman said:

Another reason I don't believe in once saved, always saved, no matter how a person lives his life.

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This where you began. But that is not the point of me calling you on the carpet. Rather, it is that you repeatedly pressed the point of quoting the need for people to "overcome" in such a way it appeared that the burden was on them, rather than on Christ.

If you would have instead, repeated that Christ had taken the burden upon Himself, I would not have confronted you, but would have agreed.

ScottA said:

This where you began. But that is not the point of me calling you on the carpet. Rather, it is that you repeatedly pressed the point of quoting the need for people to "overcome" in such a way it appeared that the burden was on them, rather than on Christ.

If you would have instead, repeated that Christ had taken the burden upon Himself, I would not have confronted you, but would have agreed.

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I'll take that as your answer. Based on your response you can't provide any reference or quote by me, stating what you purported. You made an accusation regarding what I said and can't back it up. I try not to make assumptions about what people write and I try to stay with the facts.

I provide scripture to discuss and you provide no evidence to support your comments or position. Perhaps it's because you have no foundation for your conclusions.

I'll be happy to provide more reasons for my position using the Word of God as evidence. I believe in the scriptures. I believe what it says.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Here's another scripture I love.

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I can overcome because the Word of God tells me I can.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

This only works for those who believe in His Words.

spiritman said:

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

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This is good - and yet you still leave out the good new of Christ.

spiritman said:

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

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Better late than never.

Perhaps it is redundant,
but remember that the vast majority,
those outside of Christ
cannot do anything through Christ.

I'm still blown away by this poll.

Jesus came to save people. Key word SAVE. You can't be saved and then not saved.

..moved to private chat..

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Why ?

Not everyone who sailed on the Titanic made it to America.

(I know already; bad example)

So, if someone, anyone , started out on a good ship that makes it eventually across the ocean, full fair paid no problem;
if they JUMP SHIP on purpose in the middle of a stormy windy night with huge waves,
the SHIP WILL MAKE IT,
but they won't because they did not want to.

FREE WILL is so AWESOME !

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Those who are saved won't jump ship. They've already made the decision that determines their salvation status. They've had faith, and done what was right in God's eyes - done what was necessary to enter heaven.

This post still doesn't prove anything, either, because my original point was that the word saved has permanence to it. It can't be permanent and then not permanent. You're either saved or you're not, there's no in betweens in the salvation of the Most High.

..moved to private chat..

..moved to private chat..

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..moved to private chat..

CodyFaith said:

Those who are saved won't jump ship. They've already made the decision that determines their salvation status. They've had faith, and done what was right in God's eyes - done what was necessary to enter heaven.

This post still doesn't prove anything, either, because my original point was that the word saved has permanence to it. It can't be permanent and then not permanent. You're either saved or you're not, there's no in betweens in the salvation of the Most High.

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If there is a ship that always competes it's journey, salvation is that ship. God's faithfulness to His covenant ensures that. He said that He would ensure that the world would be blessed through Abraham's seed.

It's also certain that the ship will not arrive empty, because the ship is also called a nation. Abraham was the father of two nations, Ishmael and Isaac.

Genesis 17
5“No longer shall your name be called Abram,

But your name shall be Abraham;
For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.

Isaac wasn't a Jew, so the seed is not Jewish, a people who have the law. It is composed of believers who don't have the law. In a family, these are people who are family members, and there are servants. The servants follow rules, the family members make rules, according to what will benefit the family.

Those who are in the nation of Isaac are family. How does one become a family member? By having Christ speak a word to them. Accepted.

John 12
10Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”11For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you."

Why did Jesus accept Peter and not Judas? Because Peter had turned from serving the world for worldly treasure, to serving God, for heavenly treasure. Didn't Judas also do the same? Judas claimed he did, claimed he believed God could deliver him from the world into the kingdom, but in his heart he still served the world.

Didn't the miracles done by Jesus convince Judas that he could trust Jesus to lead him into rest? Well Judas promised he would give up serving the world, but when God tested him, he revealed that he was still serving the world. That's why Jesus said, "Not all of you."

Those who are immoral, complain, test God, betray Him, will never enter His rest. God's people will surely be saved, but you have to be part of that group.


Hebrews 3
5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

7Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,

“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

8DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKEDME,

AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,

9WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,

AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.

10“THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,

AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIRHEART,

AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’;

11AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.’”

1Corinthians 10
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.9Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. 10Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

The Exodus event is used by Christ, Paul and other writers of Scripture, both OT and NT. You would do well to use it too, because it is an accurate description of the details of salvation.

ScottA said:

This is good - and yet you still leave out the good new of Christ.
Better late than never.

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Is this your way of saying, I made an assumption before hearing what you had to say? Some people have a propensity of jumping to (false) conclusions.

What do you mean by "the new of Christ"?

Too many voted yes.

Consider the sheep and the goats, that the goats were not found, because they were not like Jesus.

Jesus spoke to the seven churches in the book of Revelations and said seven times, "He that overcometh".

Here's another verse that I believe refutes OSAS.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

The word "overcometh" in the Greek conveys the idea of continuance.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Perhaps it is redundant,
but remember that the vast majority,
those outside of Christ
cannot do anything through Christ.

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I would say it this way, all those outside of Christ cannot do anything through Christ.