Once Saved, Always Saved?

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

VanillaSunflowers said:
Angel, from the Latin, angelus, and the Greek, angelos= messenger, envoy.

oh, yes, very Biblically sound ;

but not regularly thought of in mid-america usa (most posters) english.
as
in Angels: Charlie's Angels crime fighters extraordinaire
(

Apple Pie 888 · Sep 28, 2016

To the one that asked if Judas Iscariot was a Christian at one time....I'm no
expert, but I believe no one was actually born-again until AFTER Jesus
died and was resurrected. It's possible none of the disciples were actual
New Testament Christians until Jesus died and was resurrected.
The apostles of Jesus were men
that followed Jesus and helped to spread the word to others. They still
had to make a decision about Christ. They were
messengers chosen by God to spread the word of God. They, like those
that walked by faith in the Old Testament (Abraham, Joseph, David,
etc...) had to have faith in a coming Messiah, Jesus. It was that faith
that gave them eternal life, even though Jesus was not yet present
in the flesh. Abraham and the others had to sacrifice livestock to
erase their sins but that was only temporary. It had to be done over
and over again. God accepted it because
of their faith. Jesus had not yet come to the earth.
Otherwise, no one from Old Test. days would have been
saved. Jesus shed His blood so that ONCE AND FOR ALL (to all who believe),
He became the perfect sacrifice for our sins. I don't think Judas I.
was ever truly saved.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Sep 28, 2016

ldibart said:
You can only accept Him if God first puts it in your heart to. we are dead from sin dead people cannot accept, deny a thing unless first God puts the spark of life of spiritual life in us ..at this time we accept him the only way to do that to know to believe is by the grace of god and our acceptance is put there like what is 2 plus 2 you answer 4 you cannot say 5 because you do not actually believe it is 5 ..we accept because we are told it is true by God and we believe him so NOT by us, we have NO part in getting ourselves saved solo Dio Gloria, all glory to god, we can not and will not be able to boast of anything we did to help make us saved. Christ did all the work on the cross and will complete all the work in us.

So after you have accepted him he promises to finish the work in you he started how bumpy a ride may be up to you though..so either Jesus is lying or will finish the work he started in you ..Again Notice that we do not even have a part in this as well, HE will finish this our works our faith HE gives he does

Then you do not believe He created us with free will...sure all sin but we need to ask for forgiveness first

Yeshua HaDerekh · Sep 28, 2016

VanillaSunflowers said:
I would suggest you study scripture to find the truth . What you've just said is not that. Close, but not that.

It is truth

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

Apple Pie 888 said:
I believe no one was actually born-again until AFTER Jesus
died and was resurrected. It's possible none of the disciples were actual
New Testament Christians until Jesus died and was resurrected.

Perhaps it's perspective, I'm not sure.

Y'SHUA told the disciples following HIM on earth : You're already IN THE KINGDOM, NOW LIVE LIKE IT. And likewise in other places similar indications they were in HIS KINGDOM while they were still alive following HIM, (not having to wait to some future day).

Some very pernicious false teachers popular in the last century and last year
have said no one is in YHWH'S KINGDOM until after they pass away( die ); this is clearly propaganda from the devil,

but it is not directly related to your post, just an example of so many not understanding YHWH'S KINGDOM from YHWH'S WORD.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Sep 28, 2016

VanillaSunflowers said:
No, I think if Satan had a role it was to inspire his angels to take on human form and hope to lead the Saints astray by imparting a fear paradigm teaching into the world[/].

So why then does God instruct us to fear Him?

"But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."
Luke 12:5 NIV

"Fear the Lord , you his holy people, for those who fear him lack nothing."
Psalm 34:9 NIV

“Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[/]
Romans 3:15‭-‬18 NIV

So why are we suposed to "fear" the Lord? Now we must understand that we are to have a "healthy fear" or "reverence" for the lord and we souldn't simply be afraid of our salvation

"Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”
Hebrews 12:28‭-‬29 NIV

Proverbs 1:7 declares, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge.” Until we understand who God is and develop a reverential fear of Him, we cannot have true wisdom. True wisdom comes only from understanding who God is and that He is holy, just, and righteous. Deuteronomy 10:12, 20-21 records, “And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Fear the LORD your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name. He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes.” The fear of God is the basis for our walking in His ways, serving Him, and, yes, loving Him.

Some redefine the fear of God for believers to “respecting” Him. While respect is definitely included in the concept of fearing God, there is more to it than that. A biblical fear of God, for the believer, includes understanding how much God hates sin and fearing His judgment on sin—even in the life of a believer. Hebrews 12:5-11 describes God’s discipline of the believer. While it is done in love (Hebrews 12:6), it is still a fearful thing. As children, the fear of discipline from our parents no doubt prevented some evil actions. The same should be true in our relationship with God. We should fear His discipline, and therefore seek to live our lives in such a way that pleases Him.

Fearing God means having such a reverence for Him that it has a great impact on the way we live our lives. The fear of God is respecting Him, obeying Him, submitting to His discipline, and worshipping Him in awe. To fear the Lord is to know the Lord and to know the Lord is to love the Lord. If we do not have reverence and a healthy fear of God, you do not know God and are not worshiping God. Rather, you believe in a golden calf.

VanillaSunflowers · Sep 28, 2016

Would you love someone you fear?

2317. theosebeia

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

jason_delisle said:
So why then does God instruct us to fear Him?

(I got the impression he was referring to the fear the whole world always has - fear of thousands of different things spiritual and physical and mental and emotional. FEAR THAT IS TAUGHT EVERYONE, even in many churches, contrary to YHWH'S WORD)

Not the fear that ekklesia [Christians] are 'supposed' to have (respect, honor, understanding, wisdom, perspective, "GODLY FEAR" as HE SAYS that leads to seeking HIM / repentance).

The beginning of wisdom is to fear YHWH. HIS WAY (of fear)/ like a 3 year old child with a good daddy - complete PERFECT LOVE and TRUST in daddy, and fear of consequences IF ....... and so on....

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

VanillaSunflowers said:
Would you love someone you fear?...

...

YES, YHWH'S WAY (in REALITY, HIS WAY, seen in HEBREW, ARAMAIC and GREEK
but
not seen in english usually)

ldibart · Sep 28, 2016

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Then you do not believe He created us with free will...sure all sin but we need to ask for forgiveness first

Yes I do, for those saved we can now truly please him and are rewarded and lose rewards according to the works done .. those that are not alive in christ cannot and have no will no free will to do what is pleasing to the lord .

when Adam and Eve fell they died immediately spiritually let the dead bury their dead ..if you can understand that a dead person as even Christ stated about people in this state are indeed every bit as dead as if you are looking at a corpse ..

These people DO NOT have free will in this state .the only free will they will have is when GOD has appointed them a time that he will speak to them and be transformed from death unto life in their spirit with the acceptance of his Son and Savior Jesus . As we are made Spirtually alive so to will we be made Physically alive forever by the transforming of our Bodies to the Immortal bodies which Christ has prepared for us.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Sep 28, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
(I got the impression he was referring to the fear the whole world always has - fear of thousands of different things spiritual and physical and mental and emotional. FEAR THAT IS TAUGHT EVERYONE, even in many churches, contrary to YHWH'S WORD)

Not the fear that ekklesia [Christians] are 'supposed' to have (respect, honor, understanding, wisdom, perspective, "GODLY FEAR" as HE SAYS that leads to seeking HIM / repentance).

The beginning of wisdom is to fear YHWH. HIS WAY (of fear)/ like a 3 year old child with a good daddy - complete PERFECT LOVE and TRUST in daddy, and fear of consequences IF ....... and so on....

Exactly, that is what I mean by having a healthy fear of God. If we just reduce Jesus to a "buddy" or a "friend" and deceived to think that just because you think you are saved you can do whatever you like, YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS! You believe a false Jesus. A "Golden Calf" Jesus. So in light of this, if this is you (i am assuming not) you should be afraid for your soul.

ldibart · Sep 28, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
...

YES, YHWH'S WAY (in REALITY, HIS WAY, seen in HEBREW, ARAMAIC and GREEK
but
not seen in english usually)

Reverence not what we understand as fear ..on the same lines as to repect honor and deeper to worship ..so no the American word and meaning of fear is not to be used for the lord because to do works and try to love someone you are terrified of is not what God wants how can there be a peace that passes all understanding if you are worried sick about a God that could put you in hell even after Accepting his sacrifice that may not actually be good enough for you ..makes NO SENSE none.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Sep 28, 2016

VanillaSunflowers said:
Would you love someone you fear?

2317. theosebeia

When you were a child, did you love and fear you father? Yes, I would love someone I feared. Because, just like my father, the wrath of our Father is given out of love so that we will not be lost forever.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Exactly, that is what I mean by having a healthy fear of God. If we just reduce Jesus to a "buddy" or a "friend" and deceived to think that just because you think you are saved you can do whatever you like, YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS! You believe a false Jesus. A "Golden Calf" Jesus. So in light of this, if this is you (i am assuming not) you should be afraid for your soul.

Amein, subject to Y'SHUA and in line with ALL SCRIPTURE.

Brought to mind this question, in the NT especially, WHO was afraid for their soul ?

In line with this thread, is anyone OSAS ever afraid for their soul ?

I was BEFORE Y'SHUA saved, sanctified, redeemed, purchased and consecrated me;
BEFORE I was born again of the ABBA YHWH by HIS WILL;
but
even though osas has been disproven from SCRIPTURE earlier,
I'm not afraid for my soul any more than all the martyrs have been
(for example in FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS - willingly , joyously , being stoned to death like Stephen in the NT, or beheaded, or boiled in oil, or mercilessly beaten and imprisoned --- no worries but INSTEAD GREAT JOY AND PERFECT PEACE ! ) ...

to wit: are osas ready and willingly to be tortured and to die any day, for their faith ?

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

...never mind.... (elsewhere answered)

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Sep 28, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Amein, subject to Y'SHUA and in line with ALL SCRIPTURE.

Brought to mind this question, in the NT especially, WHO was afraid for their soul ?

In line with this thread, is anyone OSAS ever afraid for their soul ?

I was BEFORE Y'SHUA saved, sanctified, redeemed, purchased and consecrated me;
BEFORE I was born again of the ABBA YHWH by HIS WILL;
but
even though osas has been disproven from SCRIPTURE earlier,
I'm not afraid for my soul any more than all the martyrs have been
(for example in FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS - willingly , joyously , being stoned to death like Stephen in the NT, or beheaded, or boiled in oil, or mercilessly beaten and imprisoned --- no worries but INSTEAD GREAT JOY AND PERFECT PEACE ! ) ...

to wit: are osas ready and willingly to be tortured and to die any day, for their faith ?

As long as you fear the Lord, you need not be afraid for your soul. It is those who do not have reverence for the Lord who should be afraid for their souls.

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

jason_delisle said:
As long as you fear the Lord, you need not be afraid for your soul. It is those who do not have reverence for the Lord who should be afraid for their souls.

Yes, I agree.
But I was wondering if anyone in the NT was afraid for their soul.
i.e. Scriptural example.
Perhaps like "cut to their heart" before they repented/ before they were immersed in Y'SHUA'S NAME;
or
never repented (Judas the betrayer / scribes/ pharisees/ simon the magician)

Anyone disciple or otherwise; as examples from Scripture.

ldibart · Sep 28, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Exactly, that is what I mean by having a healthy fear of God. If we just reduce Jesus to a "buddy" or a "friend" and deceived to think that just because you think you are saved you can do whatever you like, YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS! You believe a false Jesus. A "Golden Calf" Jesus. So in light of this, if this is you (i am assuming not) you should be afraid for your soul.

This idea of a golden calf is nonsense Christians are not out to take advantage of committing sin because we think we have eternal salvation . The reason for accepting to begin with is because we are wretched dead feeling miserable eactly because of sin ..so to accept a sacrifice of forgiveness to only go out and sin makes utter nonsense .. Jesus called the apostles his friends And thinking that Christs sacrifice is for all time in our lives is trusting him and having faith ..to think that he MAY save us IF we do something and continue is having way less faith in him.We are going to do what is required because he says we are ..he states that He will complete the works he started in us .

SO what is being said is Jesus did not die on the cross for who accept that he is lord ..but they also need to his 10 steps insurance plan ..even though he promises the work he started in ..HE did not we HE started a work in us ..and he says He will complete it ..not us HIM or we can boast of how thank goodness we did this or that or else we would have went to hell ..it is very very clear that no one should or can boast that ALL glory to God ..

ynneb · Sep 28, 2016

Most arguments here are weighted too heavily on just a few words in the Bible. I've noticed that people also place a lot of emphasis on 'their' interpretation of those few words. At one stage I would have done this myself.
Lets keep in mind that the Bible was penned by men, has many different interpretations, and books have been added and dropped throughout history. Some would say that the Bible is the inspired and infallible word of God, but I would hasten to ask which particular Bible are they talking about?
The discussion here hinges on just a few scriptures, yet truthfully, no one really knows, and it worries me those who 'think' their interpretation or idea is 'the way'

yeshuaslavejeff · Sep 28, 2016

jason_delisle said:
As long as you fear the Lord, you need not be afraid for your soul.

Tangent observation, btw: IN the NT no one who was immersed in Y'SHUA, born again, part of the body ekklesia set apart by YHWH,
was depressed. Many many americans TODAY are depressed OR diagnosed with depression AND all too often (I know and believe) put on medicine that hurts them.

HAS ANY CHURCH BODY been doing anything to remedy this overall trend ?

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Do you agree with OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved)?

Yes

No

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