Once Saved Always Saved

[PerpetuallyCurious]

Do you agree with this belief?
Do you think you can lose salvation if you keep sinning, have doubts or lukewarm?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Here we go again....

 

[Shempster]

That is a really loaded question.
It starts with your definition of what "saved" means. If it means saved from the repercussions of sin then sure you can lose it. Obviously if you willfully sin without an issue then you will receive the outcome of said sin.
Now if what you mean is - will I end up burning in hell simply because I am lukewarm doubtful and sinful...well the answer drastically changes with your world view.

As with every other biblical topic, what God is trying to show all of us is not always found in the black ink of the bible (meaning on the surface and easy to decipher) I mean the words are certainly hints...and Jesus gives us even more hints as to the meaning of it all in the the red ink.
But I really believe the real message is in between the red and black ink...in the white areas where the living spirit of God resides.

Just keep in mind, if you look to forums and books written by others you will just get more and more confused. Just keep seeking Him and He will show you!

Blessings!

 

[timewerx]

Do you agree with this belief?
Do you think you can lose salvation if you keep sinning, have doubts or lukewarm?

I don't know, I mean Hitler was a Christian in his youth, he most certainly accepted Christ back then.

 

[Der Alte]

I don't know, I mean Hitler was a Christian in his youth, he most certainly accepted Christ back then.

Not necessarily, being baptized as a baby does not make one a Christian. I know of no evidence that Hitler ever had a saving knowledge of Jesus.

 

[Albion]

Not necessarily, being baptized as a baby does not make one a Christian. I know of no evidence that Hitler ever had a saving knowledge of Jesus.

That's right. He was baptized in the Catholic Church, but that's about it. As a young man, he undeniably rejected Christianity. See what he says in Mein Kampf about it, for example.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

It is well known that in the old testament you could lose the holy spirit. However in the new testament you can't lose it. So if you do have the holy spirit after the day of pentecost then you have it permanently. Of course a friend asked me if someone gets saved and gets the holy spirit and believes Jesus is lord and rose from the dead then becomes a satanist if he still goes to heaven. I couldn't help but answer yes because God does say that it is his responsibility to keep us on track when we fall and I think it applies here.

However reading this verse I think its clear the former christian now satanist does not go to heaven.
1Jo 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[timewerx]

Not necessarily, being baptized as a baby does not make one a Christian. I know of no evidence that Hitler ever had a saving knowledge of Jesus.

The early life of Hitler paralleled that of Vincent Van Gogh. They both started out active in the Christian Church, and later became very frustrated artists.

Hitler almost took his life just like Vincent Van Gogh out of desperation being an artist. But WW1 took him into the frontlines and in a way, saved Hitler's life and gave him a restart in life. His art is not going anywhere so maybe becoming a "great leader" with aspiration for world domination might work out for him!

Ironically, both men their art became priceless after their deaths. What a crazy world we live in!

Of course, had, Hitler's art career took off, there would be no WW2 but Russia would have caught the world entirely by surprise.... It was Hitler who bought Russia's much greater evil into the spotlight. anyway.... Back to topic, Hitler most likely accept Christ in the age of reason.

 

[Albion]

Do you agree with this belief?
Do you think you can lose salvation if you keep sinning, have doubts or lukewarm?

It's most likely that you weren't saved to begin with or else you wouldn't be a profligate sinner. We all do sin after conversion, but deliberately or blatantly ignoring the Christian lifestyle would be a red flag.

 

[JerushaC]

I disagree with the "once saved always saved belief." Life happens and people begin to stray. Of course if they repent of their sin and follow Jesus once again, they are accepted. Once you accept Jesus as lord and savior and accept his gift of atonement for your sins, that doesn't give us the pass card to do what ever we life. It would be like a murderer telling himself "I will murder this person but I will be forgiven anyway, so it doesn't matter what I do, I'll be forgiven anyway." People can turn their backs on God and live for the devil.

 

[mnorian]

You seem to be countering what Holy Scriptures say:

1 John 3:9 (KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

As a born of God Christian I do not sin, it's my dead body of sin that sins but I am no longer that dead body - I was born a new creation at Baptism - a new creation that cannot sin.

"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." 1 John 2:1

 

[Dkh587]

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Albion]

The Elect WILL endure until the end, and of course they'll be saved.

Don't misread that verse to mean it's all 'up in the air" as to whether God will be faithful to his people or not.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't know, I mean Hitler was a Christian in his youth, he most certainly accepted Christ back then.

Whaaaa?

 

[Albion]

Back to topic, Hitler most likely accept Christ in the age of reason.

You did well to say "most likely" because you're guessing. There is absolutely no evidence (or testimony from Hitler himself) that I know of which would confirm this guess.

 

[redleghunter]

I disagree with the "once saved always saved belief." Life happens and people begin to stray. Of course if they repent of their sin and follow Jesus once again, they are accepted. Once you accept Jesus as lord and savior and accept his gift of atonement for your sins, that doesn't give us the pass card to do what ever we life. It would be like a murderer telling himself "I will murder this person but I will be forgiven anyway, so it doesn't matter what I do, I'll be forgiven anyway." People can turn their backs on God and live for the devil.

There is another side to the story above. God is Sovereign in His design and relationship with those who are His children. Being Abba to us He is faithful and true to chastise us to bring us back on His narrow path. God will do this in many ways, and in many ways He uses the ekklesia The Body of Christ. The parable of the Graceful Father comes to mind. Everyone always focuses on the prodigal son, when it was his father who restored the son.

 

[redleghunter]

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Praise be to God He provides!

 

[DrBubbaLove]

We are a fallen race and in need of salvation because of sin. Few Christians claim to have stopped sinning and some sin badly. It is hard to imagine a single sin causing a fall from Grace but that is what happened "in the Beginning", so am not sure why we should think a fall from Grace (having "been saved") is not possible when we continue to sin. The assurance we are given is that He can forgive our sins when we fall, but we have to ask. And if it were an automatic blanket future application, then what would be the need for someone who is "saved" to continue to ask for forgiveness of sins?

Why have a distinction of mortal sin if such has no eternal consequence? To me and having been there done that, the renewal process some folks go through to "really" get saved this time is the same concept as our need to ask for forgiveness when we fail.

 

[redleghunter]

We are a fallen race and in need of salvation because of sin. Few Christians claim to have stopped sinning and some sin badly. It is hard to imagine a single sin causing a fall from Grace but that is what happened "in the Beginning", so am not sure why we should think a fall from Grace (having "been saved") is not possible when we continue to sin. The assurance we are given is that He can forgive our sins when we fall, but we have to ask. And if it were an automatic blanket future application, then what would be the need for someone who is "saved" to continue to ask for forgiveness of sins?

Why have a distinction of mortal sin if such has no eternal consequence? To me and having been there done that, the renewal process some folks go through to "really" get saved this time is the same concept as our need to ask for forgiveness when we fail.

The greatest illustration I know of is the following:

John 13: New King James Version (NKJV)

2 And supper being ended the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray Him, 3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God, 4 rose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself. 5 After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. 6 Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?”

7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.”

8 Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”

Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”

9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!”

10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”

 

[nomadictheist]

I disagree with the "once saved always saved belief." Life happens and people begin to stray. Of course if they repent of their sin and follow Jesus once again, they are accepted. Once you accept Jesus as lord and savior and accept his gift of atonement for your sins, that doesn't give us the pass card to do what ever we life. It would be like a murderer telling himself "I will murder this person but I will be forgiven anyway, so it doesn't matter what I do, I'll be forgiven anyway." People can turn their backs on God and live for the devil.

But this seems to say "once you accept Jesus, it's all on you." This is the opposite of what Paul says to the Galatians when he asks them "Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?"

I know well the verses used to question the doctrine of "eternal security." And I will, reservedly, offer the opinion that my studies have led to on the matter.

I believe that one who is elect is saved, and that this salvation can be revoked by no power in heaven or earth. This is based, on part, on Paul's well known statement that "nothing can separate us from the love of Christ." It is also based on Jesus' own words:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

And furthermore,

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

Finally,
" For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

Because of these and other verses like them, I believe that nobody who has believed in Jesus can become "unsaved." However, I am aware that there are some verses and passages, particularly in Hebrews and Peter's epistles, though one could also interpret the words of John in 1 John to mean that losing your salvation is possible as well, that seem to say that certain actions can make us no longer children of God. But taken with the whole of scripture, I believe that these rather speak of people who come to the body of Christ, but are never a part of it, and after experiencing life among the body choose to reject Jesus and His gift of grace.

However, I do believe that a person can believe himself/herself to be saved when, in fact, he/she is not. So in practice, when such a one falls away, he/she would perceive it as losing a salvation that he/she never had.

I hope this kind of makes sense...