Once saved, always saved?

I find the point to be irrelevant, regardless of it's truth. For me it's like saying 90% of Americans who have died in the last 10 yrs have watched TV.

peebly63 said:

it is beneficial to us to not sin, we can walk a more peaceful easier walk and gives the enemy less ammunition in the form of condemnation to throw at us but to me the fact remains Jesus that Jesus died for our sins 2000 years or more earlier, so if that didn't atone for all sins for all past present and future it could not have atoned for any after the day he was crucified..

Grace comes as a free gift as does righteousness or right stnading with God as some would say...

none of our salvation is based upon our works thank goodness..

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It depends on what you call 'works'. It is nothing we can do in our Earthly bodies or our own will to be saved, but we must ACCEPT and OBEY him. My question remains, does one just have to accept one time, then go and do what they see fit? Is that all it takes? I do not believe that to be so. The rebellion is the issue. Does He love us any less, no, because He
He died for us BEFORE we even accepted Him. He died for all sins, it does not mean we do not have to repent and cast any sins we do away. Our salvation is conditional, let's be real. Jesus said forgive and you'll be forgiven, if you DO NOT forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you. Jesus said it, not me.

If your eye, hand, foot cause you to sin CUT IT OFF, for it is better to enter Heaven maimed than go to hell.

God knows our intentions and our heart. Do you have a heart for God or just jumping in for a free ride to Heaven? It's a general question, not trying to single you out.

HalfFull said:

It depends on what you call 'works'. It is nothing we can do in our Earthly bodies or our own will to be saved, but we must ACCEPT and OBEY him. My question remains, does one just have to accept one time, then go and do what they see fit? Is that all it takes? I do not believe that to be so. The rebellion is the issue. Does He love us any less, no, because He
He died for us BEFORE we even accepted Him. He died for all sins, it does not mean we do not have to repent and cast any sins we do away. Our salvation is conditional, let's be real. Jesus said forgive and you'll be forgiven, if you DO NOT forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you. Jesus said it, not me.

If your eye, hand, foot cause you to sin CUT IT OFF, for it is better to enter Heaven maimed than go to hell.

God knows our intentions and our heart. Do you have a heart for God or just jumping in for a free ride to Heaven? It's a general question, not trying to single you out.

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the only part that is conditional is to accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour,,

peebly63 said:

the only part that is conditional is to accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour,,

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The keyword being Lord. The Lord tells us what to do, and we obey. If you've allowed Him to be Lord, you no longer live for yourself, you are a slave to Christ. We deny all of our wants, desires, etc. until HIS wants and desires for us begin to take fruition.

So, like I said, if we do not allow Jesus to be the Lord, take the reigns and guide us by way of the Holy Spirit, he really isn't our Lord. Again, our forgiveness is conditional. Unless you want to refute what Jesus said, if we don't forgive, we won't be forgiven? To put it plainly, unforgiveness is a sin. And we know the wages of it.

thesunisout said:

Fully agree with this statement, however, just because salvation is a free gift doesn't mean you can't throw it away.

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I never stated it couldn't be thrown away. Revelation is clear that those that renounce Yeshua when under persecution and don't endure to the end risk the 2nd death. Those that do overcome gain the reward.

The Lord Jesus often compared us to sheep and called Himself the Good Shepherd. Sheep are not responsible for keeping themselves from wandering off and getting lost. That’s the shepherd’s job. As such, Jesus said no one can take us out of His hands (John 10:28-29) and that He’ll never lose even one of us (John 6:39).

Some people would have you believe the phrase “no one” means “no one but ourselves”, indicating that we can relinquish our salvation. But that puts words in the Lord’s mouth and violates the clear intent of these promises.


Besides, the Bible says, “It is God who makes us stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us, and put His spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come (2 Cor. 1:21-22). When we become believers we are not our own any longer. We’ve been bought at a price (1 Cor. 6:19-20) and God has taken responsibility for us.


Keeping us saved is not the work of a weak natural human like we are. It’s the work of a strong supernatural God like He is. People can wander away because of personal experiences like your son has endured, but it’s the Lord’s job to bring us back, and He’s promised us a 100% recovery rate.


Anyone who thinks they can walk away and lose salvation is thinking too much about themselves. They dont have the ability or power.

OK, I think I read all the posts and if I missed someone making this point, forgive me.

Check this out... Jesus said: John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Ok, so I'm a little obvious with the highlighting and underlining. My style...

So, the Lord Himself said "He knows us and we shall never perish". Right?

Not done yet though. Check out what the Savior said in Matthew about the Great White Throne Judgment... Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Isn't this the great judgment of the lost in Revelation? And if Jesus told folks there who had lost their salvation that He never knew them, wouldn't that make the Savior a fibber?

Now notice the underlined words in green. What is the Fathers will? 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. Want to hear more?

The Parson said:

OK, I think I read all the posts and if I missed someone making this point, forgive me.

Check this out... Jesus said: John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Ok, so I'm a little obvious with the highlighting and underlining. My style...

So, the Lord Himself said "He knows us and we shall never perish". Right?

Not done yet though. Check out what the Savior said in Matthew about the Great White Throne Judgment... Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Isn't this the great judgment of the lost in Revelation? And if Jesus told folks there who had lost their salvation that He never knew them, wouldn't that make the Savior a fibber?

Now notice the underlined words in green. What is the Fathers will? 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. Want to hear more?

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I think you're dabbling in Calvinism here..look at what the scripture says:

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

There are three conditions here to being one of His sheep. One is that they listen to His voice. Two is that He knows them (He approves of them). Three is that they follow Him.

If you qualify as one of His sheep under those three conditions, you can move on to verse 28:

10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

It is those He gives eternal life; those who hear His voice, are known by Him, and follow Him will never perish. Of course anyone who meets those conditions will never perish, and anyone who doesn't certainly will perish. This is exactly what it says in John 15:4-6

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

They're both talking about abiding in Christ, and abiding in Christ is what makes you His sheep. This isn't just for the lucky few who God predestined to be His sheep, which is what you have to believe to make your interpretation of these verses true. The only way you could say this applies to certain people is if everyone isn't called, but everyone is called according to Romans 1:18-21. The scripture says that God gives everyone revelation that He exists, and that no one will have any excuse on judgment day. Therefore, everyone has the potential to be a sheep of His, and perhaps they will follow Him for a time..this is what the word says in the parable of the sower. But ultimately, what identifies them as a true sheep is their persistence in abiding in Him. If at some point they cease to listen, or choose not to follow Him, they identify themselves as not being His true sheep after all. If you want to say that everyone who is a true sheep of Jesus will be saved, you are right. However I think the word makes it clear that everyone has that potential, and it is ultimately the conditions listed in 10:27 which will determine whether that potential becomes actual or not.

thesunisout said:

I think you're dabbling in Calvinism here..look at what the scripture says:

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

There are three conditions here to being one of His sheep. One is that they listen to His voice. Two is that He knows them (He approves of them). Three is that they follow Him.

If you qualify as one of His sheep under those three conditions, you can move on to verse 28:

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I like how you brought out the qualification in the one Scripture being a prerequisite for the application of the next. Not a lot of people understand that.

if you are walking Gods way, as a 'saved' person then you are for Him not against Him. if you decide at some stage of you walk to live a life of sin, ie adultry on the side or you regulary visit prostitutes or do something regulary that you know is a 'sin'. Then you die and have not repented of that sin, and had it washed by the blood of the lamb. Then you are 'not cleansed' therefore you wont get into heaven as God and sin cant be together. Just saying that 'false come into my heart jesus' mantra is not in anyway or form guaranteeing you salvation. The problem is today , we dont read the bible we rely on someone else doing it and teaching 'their version' to us..and its now very wrong. Once saved always saved is a license for christians to continue to sin ' making it as if the Lord died on the stake for nothing'..

acts chapter 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

the word makes it very simple I think some churches and pastors and famous personalities try to make it harder than it is, perhaps it is to control the masses of believers for their own ends who knows...

Dabbling in Calvinism??? You got to be kidding.

Sorry, that was an early morning response to your post. There isn't a Calvinistic bone in my body. And how could you dismiss something as plain as those scriptures? I'll get back to this one after work. Have a blessed day ya'll.

Wasn't it said that believing is not enough, that even demons believe and tremble? But it is about where our obedience lies. Are you living for yourself, or the Lord? Are you spending more time on message boards than that quality time with your Father? Are you sinning, knowing that God died to set us free not only from the power of sin, but the chains of them that hold you down? He is clear when He says 'Go and sin no more.' Why would He say that if He didn't mean it? Couldn't there have been a reason for that?

Paul, James, Peter and others often taught about repentance to BELIEVERS. We are all called to repentance, even believers. How can God work in someone's life if we're clouding the relationship with God with sin? If you do something that you know is wrong, God will convict you and call you to repentance. Whether you listen is up to you.

The Parson said:

Dabbling in Calvinism??? You got to be kidding.

Sorry, that was an early morning response to your post. There isn't a Calvinistic bone in my body. And how could you dismiss something as plain as those scriptures? I'll get back to this one after work. Have a blessed day ya'll.

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Hey brother..there was no ill will intended. I love you and I welcome the discussion and your fellowship. I didn't dismiss those scriptures, I gave you my interpretation of them, showing that for verse 28 to apply certain conditions in verse 27 must be met. God bless.

Personally, my definition of "saved" is bring eligible to get into heaven. The Bible talks about how those who believe in God shall be saved, but many people miss a big part of that: shall is a future tense word. One's belief and acceptance of God will move them to becoming saved, but doing that alone doesn't make one saved(by my definition of the word). Jesus says that only those baptized of the water and the spirit will be able to make it in. So the hypotherical child.wouldn't have been saved in the first place by just asking for forgiveness(if you define being saved as being eligible to get into heaven).

Also, waaay at the beginning of Genesis(pretty sure it's the beginning of chapter 5) God says that His spirit wouldn't always strive with man.

depends on whether you forfeit your original condition of salvation.

we are saved through our faith in Christ, If you were to deny Him than you would have forfeited your original condition of salvation.

OK then. I reckon I need to ask some questions before I go anywhere towards my point. Are any of you familiar with the great white throne judgement?
Matthew 7
Revelation 20

TravelerFarAwayFromHome said:

depends on whether you forfeit your original condition of salvation.

we are saved through our faith in Christ, If you were to deny Him than you would have forfeited your original condition of salvation.

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why would you deny him, after accepting him??

but if we have as it says passed from death in to life, become a new creation is there any way back...