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once saved always saved

Hentenza

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greatdivide46

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To believe once saved always saved one has to either ignore or dismiss all the passages that tell us the consequences of rejecting the salvation we once held so dear. The entire book of Hebrews is for the purpose of trying to convince people not to reject their salvation and return to their former lifestyles. If it were not possible to do that the book of Hebrews is unnecessary at best or a total sham at worst.
 
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DeaconDean

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To believe once saved always saved one has to either ignore or dismiss all the passages that tell us the consequences of rejecting the salvation we once held so dear. The entire book of Hebrews is for the purpose of trying to convince people not to reject their salvation and return to their former lifestyles. If it were not possible to do that the book of Hebrews is unnecessary at best or a total sham at worst.

You know, I love it when "Christians" quote Heb. 10:26 and think that says it all.

It only goes to show that they might have read the chapter, but they have failed to do as Paul instructed Timothy:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." -1 Tim. 2:15 (KJV)

Study involves more than just reading the scriptures, it also involves reading commentary, studying the original language of the Bible.

Something that some do not do. And the three most important principles of biblical hermenutics is: "context, context, context".

Arthur W. Pink, in his "Exposition of Hebrews" addresses this in his introduction saying:

...its first sentence enables us to identify at once those to whom the Epistle was originally sent: see Hebrews 1:1, 2. They to whom God spake through the prophets were the children of Israel, and it was also unto them He had spoken through His Son. In Hebrews 3:1, we find a word which, however, narrows the circle to which this Epistle was first sent. It was not the Jewish nation at large which was addressed, but the "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" among them. Clear confirmation of this is supplied in the Epistles of Peter. His first was addressed, locally, to "the elect sojourners of the Dispersion (Heb. 1:1—Gk., "eklektois parepidenois diasporas"). His second Epistle (see Hebrews 3:1) was addressed, locally and immediately, to the same company. Now in 2 Peter 3:15 the apostle makes specific reference to "our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you." Thus all doubt is removed as to whom our Epistle was first sent.

The Epistle itself contains further details which serve to identify the addressees. That it was written to saints who were by no means young in the faith is clear from Hebrews 5:12. That it was sent to those who had suffered severe persecutions (cf. Acts 8:1) is plain from what we read in Hebrews 10:32. That it was addressed to a Christian community of considerable size is evident from Hebrews 13:24. From this last reference we are inclined to conclude that this Epistle was first delivered to the church in Jerusalem (Acts 11:22), or to the churches in Judea (Acts 9:31), copies of which would be made and forwarded to Jewish Christians in foreign lands. Thus, our Epistle was first addressed to those descendants of Abraham who, by grace, had believed on their Savior-Messiah.

This, in a word, was to instruct Jewish believers that Judaism had been superceded by Christianity. It must be borne in mind that a very considerable proportion of the earliest converts to Christ were Jews by natural birth, who continued to labor under Jewish prejudices. In his early Epistles the apostle had touched several times on this point, and sought to wean them from an undue and now untimely attachment to the Mosaic institutions. But only in this Epistle does he deal fully and systematically with the subject.

It is difficult for us to appreciate the position, at the time this Epistle was written, of those in Israel who had believed on the Lord Jesus. Unlike the Gentiles, who, for long centuries past, had lost all knowledge of the true God, and, in consequence, worshipped idols, the Jews had a Divine religion, and a Divinely-appointed place of worship. To be called upon to forsake these, which had been venerated by their fathers for over a thousand years, was to make a big demand upon them. It was natural that even those among them who had savingly believed on Christ should want to retain the forms and ceremonies amid which they had been brought up; the more so, seeing that the Temple still stood and the Levitical priesthood still functioned. An endeavor had been made to link Christianity on to Judaism, and as Acts 21:20 tells us there were many thousands of the early Jewish Christians who were "zealous of the law"—as the next verses clearly show, the ceremonial law.

"Instead of perceiving that under the new economy of things, there was neither Jew nor Gentile, but, that, without reference to external distinctions, all believers in Christ Jesus were now to live together in the closest bonds of spiritual attachment in holy society, they dreamed of the Gentiles being admitted to the participation of the Jewish Church through means of the Messiah, and, that its external economy was to remain unaltered to the end of the world" (Dr. J. Brown).

In addition to their natural prejudices, the temporal circumstances of the believing Jews became increasingly discouraging, yea, presented a sore temptation for them to abandon the profession of Christianity. Following the persecution spoken of in Acts 8:1, that eminent scholar, Adolph Saphir—himself a converted Jew—tells us: "Then arose another persecution of the believers, especially directed against the apostle Paul. Festus died about the year 63, and under the high priest Ananias, who favored the Sadducees, the Christian Hebrews were persecuted as transgressors of the law. Some of them were stoned to death; and though this extreme punishment could not be frequently inflicted by the Sanhedrim, they were able to subject their brethren to sufferings and reproaches which they felt keenly. It was a small thing that they confiscated their goods; but they banished them from the holy places. Hitherto they had enjoyed the privileges of devout Israelites: they could take part in the beautiful and God-appointed services of the sanctuary; but now they were treated as unclean and apostates. Unless they gave up faith in Jesus, and forsook the assembling of themselves together, they were not allowed to enter the Temple, they were banished from the altar, the sacrifice, the high priest, the house of Jehovah.

"We can scarcely realize the piercing sword which thus wounded their inmost heart. That by clinging to the Messiah they were to be severed from Messiah’s people, was, indeed, a great and perplexing trial; that for the hope of Israel’s glory they were banished from the place which God had chosen, and where the divine Presence was revealed, and the symbols and ordinances had been the joy and strength of their fathers; that they were to be no longer children of the covenant and of the house, but worse than Gentiles, excluded from the outer court, cut off from the commonwealth of Israel. This was indeed a sore and mysterious trial. Cleaving to the promises made unto their fathers, cherishing the hope in constant prayer that their nation would yet accept the Messiah, it was the severest test to which their faith could be put, when their loyalty to Jesus involved separation from all the sacred rights and privileges of Jerusalem."

Thus the need for an authoritative, lucid, and systematic setting forth of the real relation of Christianity to Judaism was a pressing one. Satan would not miss the opportunity of seeking to persuade these Hebrews that their faith in Jesus of Nazareth was a mistake, a delusion, a sin. Were they right, while the vast majority of their brethren, according to the flesh, among whom were almost all the respected members of the Sanhedrim and the priesthood, wrong? Had God prospered them since they had become followers of the crucified One? or, did not their temporal circumstances evidence that He was most displeased with them? Moreover, the believing remnant of Israel had looked for a speedy return of Christ to the earth, but thirty years had now passed and He had not come! Yes, their situation was critical, and there was an urgent need that their faith should be strengthened, their understanding enlightened, and a fuller explanation be given them of Christianity in the light of the Old Testament. It was to meet this need that God, in His tender mercy, moved His servant to write this Epistle to them.

1. Introduction

In other words, the writer of Hebrews, was warning those newly converted Jews who were danger of reverting back (apostasy) to ritual Judaism and upon sinning, there remaineth no sacrfice for sin once they have been enlightened as to the sacrifice of Christ for sin "once for all".

I love it when people use this verse to tell Christians that once they sin, they are not saved, or have "apostasized.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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phoenixdem

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To believe once saved always saved one has to either ignore or dismiss all the passages that tell us the consequences of rejecting the salvation we once held so dear. The entire book of Hebrews is for the purpose of trying to convince people not to reject their salvation and return to their former lifestyles. If it were not possible to do that the book of Hebrews is unnecessary at best or a total sham at worst.

Oh dear, now we have Books of the Holy Bible that are unnecessary so we can begin tossing out Books of the Bible that we don't believe. Well...we can always include the Book of John and the Book of Romans.

John
6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that
cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the
will of him that sent me.
6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he
hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at
the last day.

Romans
8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that
justifieth.
8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is
risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh
intercession for us.
8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or
distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or
sword?
8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are
accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him
that loved us.
8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor
principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to

separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There are other Books of which we can dispense because there are many verses that support each other in the promise of salvation for eternity, but we don't need them either.

I remember posting to one guy who wants to do away with the first ten chapters of Genesis because he was a teacher of the young, from what I understood, and he thought that they wouldn't accept the first ten chapters and they certainly wouldn't refute evolution.

Ok, why waste time. Let's do away with all of the Scriptures and see if Abdullah could persuade his brother Muslims to take us in.
 
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Hentenza

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Let me remind our esteemed guests that debating in a congregational forum where one is not a member is a violation of the CF posting rules. Please become familiar with the posting rules.

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WinBySurrender

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When Peter asked Jesus how many times he is to forgive a man who sins against him, he asked "Seven times?" That was being truly magnanimous in their culture, because the Pharisees said you only had to forgive three times. Yet Jesus answers, "No ... seventy times seven." Not 490 times and "that's it!" Always forgive, forgive forever, never refuse forgiveness. So do you suppose Jesus holds Himself to a lesser standard? Does He put a limit on the number or accumulation of sin? No. He always forgives. The shed blood of Jesus Christ says that any man who has faith in that sacrifice is bound to Christ forever. Jude 24 says it is up to Him, not us, to prevent our stumbling. Confession is necessary, but not for "re-salvation" - it is necessary for the restoration of fellowship, which is broken by sin, but not relationship, which cannot be broken. We did nothing to establish it, we can do nothing to sever it.
 
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LadyOfMystery

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I believe we have eternal security and I believe "once saved always saved" for these reasons:

People often think since we have free will that we can choose to not be saved anymore but what they forget is salvation is a gift he gave to us. If we could take it back, it's not really a gift it would be a trade. When you get a gift from someone, you accept it. If you change your mind later and try to give it back, they make accept it but in God's case there is no evidence that when someone says "Im not saved anymore" He did not take away their salvation. He did not accept it back. It's yours forever. You can bury it, forget it, ignore it but its still your gift living inside you ready for you to pick it up.
 
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suzybeezy

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MOD HAT ON

A thread clean up has occurred to remove off topic posts and to remove posts that do not comply with:

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greatdivide46

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1. Introduction

In other words, the writer of Hebrews, was warning those newly converted Jews who were danger of reverting back (apostasy) to ritual Judaism and upon sinning, there remaineth no sacrfice for sin once they have been enlightened as to the sacrifice of Christ for sin "once for all".

I love it when people use this verse to tell Christians that once they sin, they are not saved, or have "apostasized.
I agree with you as to whom the letter to the Hebrews was written to. My question is if it is not possible for them to revert back to ritual Judaism why even warn them about such a thing? And according to OSAS once they were saved they will always be saved. In other words it would be impossible for them to revert back to ritual Judaism. Hence, there would be no point in warning them not to do that since there is no danger that they can even do that.
 
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DCJazz

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is this teaching true?
a man i used to talk to said that the once saved always saved teaching is baloney

I think it's biblical, yes.
After all, the original sin inherent in all mankind is forgiven through Christ. And it's that sin that separates us from God in the first place.

If there's a way to dislodge myself from that, then I have to question the authority of God and, by extension, question the point of Christ.

This verse comes to mind:

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39, NIV I think.)

I count as a created being, don't I? So then to say that I can re-separate myself from God is blasphemy.
 
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Lindas Place

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If Hebrews 10 does not convince us that … Jesus saved us once for all time, and it is a sin to believe His blood did not save us completely… then nothing will… this is my favorite book… very encouraging.. if they continue to believe they can lose God’s salvation… which is what led them to return to animal sacrificing.. they are deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth and God will judge His people…


Lets read it in context… This is Good News !

Hebrews 10
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.’”
8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” (although the law required them to be made). 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.

A Call to Persevere
19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.
35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For in just a very little while,
“He who is coming will come and will not delay.
38 But my righteous one will live by faith.
And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him.”
39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.
 
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greatdivide46

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And why a call to persevere when it is impossible to do anything else? I guess I just don't get it. The book of Hebrews is encouraging to me too, simply because I recognize the possibility of losing one's salvation. For those who believe it is impossible to do that I just don't see how Hebrews can be all that encouraging.
 
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Lindas Place

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Once saved, not always saves...
Backsliders God will punish!
He only punishes His children.


because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Hebrews 12:6

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Hebrews 12:7-8
 
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