Once Saved Always Saved: True, False, or Misrepresented?

[FredVB]

If you are saved according to real faith you have in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, whose righteousness was for us, dying for us and rising again, it is then the grace of Yahweh God, and you are sealed with his Spirit, you never will be removed, it is his work, things are written that we may know we who have come to him with that real faith have eternal life. There are some passages that some believe to mean they can lose that, but generally those are about keeping or losing blessings. We have assurances written in the Bible for us.


Passages in Hebrews 10 that some take to mean salvation may possibly be lost to those who truly have it are in the epistle written to keep those whom the apostle addressed from returning again to the Jewish religion, under the trials to which they were subjected. The passages are about some who receive knowledge of truth, that is, they hear and understand the gospel, it is not speaking necessarily of those who respond in faith ot Christ as their Lord and savior and loving God in return. Those who come to that point of understanding and still trust in observance of Jewish Law for their salvation would insult the gospel of Christ. But the believers with true faith are assured.


1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
5: 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.


Ephesians 2: 4 God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


Romans 8: 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

He has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. But scripture also says to GUARD the good deposit. Why must we guard it, if it can't be lost?

We must guard what we have been given, and to answer why it is because this is about keeping or losing blessings or continuously even relationship with Yahweh our God through Jesus Christ, it is his work in which any of us have our salvation, according to what is promised, including 1 John 1: 9 and 5: 10-13, Ephesians 2: 4-10, and Romans 8: 28-39.

 

[Giver]

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

People need to understand that this writing was addressed to those who had had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. These people were baptized in Jesus name and received the Holy Spirit.

The verse very clearly tells them that one who deliberately sins is insulting the Spirit of Grace. One can’t insult the Holy Spirit if he or she has not been given the Holy Spirit.

 

[bbbbbbb]

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

People need to understand that this writing was addressed to those who had had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. These people were baptized in Jesus name and received the Holy Spirit.

The verse very clearly tells them that one who deliberately sins is insulting the Spirit of Grace. One can’t insult the Holy Spirit if he or she has not been given the Holy Spirit.

32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. 35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

See, I can do this, too.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one.35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

See, I can do this, too.

So can I.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13

But this verse isn't all I have. In fact, I have many, many more Scriptural references which are very similar to that one.

In fact, to further illustrate my point, let's back up a little bit to the verses right before verse 13.

(Now you need to pay close attention to the part of the following passage that is in bold red, particularly the underlined part)

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:9-12

 

[Giver]

32 But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one.35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

See, I can do this, too.

Yes but was it sinners Paul was addressing?

I know for sure Paul was not addressing those who still sinned. I have proof that I am right.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes but was it sinners Paul was addressing?

I know for sure Paul was not addressing those who still sinned. I have proof that I am right.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

First, it is highly doubtful that Paul addressed anyone in the epistle to the Hebrews as most people agree that the author is unidentified.

Second, the author of the epistle is addressing the very same audience he has throughout the epistle. In the passage which I quoted, he assures his audience of their salvation. If he really meant, in the earlier section which you quoted, that they could lose their salvation, why did he assure them of it following his stern warning?

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

First, it is highly doubtful that Paul addressed anyone in the epistle to the Hebrews as most people agree that the author is unidentified.

Second, the author of the epistle is addressing the very same audience he has throughout the epistle. In the passage which I quoted, he assures his audience of their salvation. If he really meant, in the earlier section which you quoted, that they could lose their salvation, why did he assure them of it following his stern warning?

Good question.

 

[Giver]

First, it is highly doubtful that Paul addressed anyone in the epistle to the Hebrews as most people agree that the author is unidentified.

Second, the author of the epistle is addressing the very same audience he has throughout the epistle. In the passage which I quoted, he assures his audience of their salvation. If he really meant, in the earlier section which you quoted, that they could lose their salvation, why did he assure them of it following his stern warning?

I don’t need to explain why Paul said anything. You know he said. If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

He said We have been given the knowledge of to truth. You see that included who ever wrote Hebrews. I personally believe it was Paul, but don’t want to get into any argument about that, because regardless of who wrote the letter it is the written Word of God.

I believe it is a good assumption that who ever wrote Hebrews was a Christian.

The person who wrote Hebrews is saying if he or she ever committed a deliberate sin they would never enter the kingdom of God.

 

[sculleywr]

I don’t need to explain why Paul said anything. You know he said. If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

He said We have been given the knowledge of to truth. You see that included who ever wrote Hebrews. I personally believe it was Paul, but don’t want to get into any argument about that, because regardless of who wrote the letter it is the written Word of God.

I believe it is a good assumption that who ever wrote Hebrews was a Christian.

The person who wrote Hebrews is saying if he or she ever committed a deliberate sin they would never enter the kingdom of God.

Well, I guess you and I could be cell-mates in hell, then. top bunk or bottom?

 

[Giver]

Well, I guess you and I could be cell-mates in hell, then. top bunk or bottom?

Does make one think if he or she does truly know the truth does it not?

People have been so misled for so many years.

It is coming to a time when people will truly give his or her life to God or they will be over come.

I know from God that if one deliberately sin he or she is of Satan.

 

[sculleywr]

Does make one think if he or she does truly know the truth does it not?

People have been so misled for so many years.

It is coming to a time when people will truly give his or her life to God or they will be over come.

I know from God that if one deliberately sin he or she is of Satan.

I know from His words in Scripture that there is nothing a human can do that can undo God's grace, because His Grace is uncreated, infinite, and eternal. Where sin abounds, grace does much more abound.

I know from Scripture and the Fathers of the Church that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

I know from Scripture that humans will err, and will fall away, but that they may always return to the true path.

You know from First Opinions 3:15 that deliberate sin is of Satan. Meanwhile, I know that it is of humanity as we see it from Scripture.

When your opinion contradicts Scripture, your opinion must be flushed down the toilet.

 

[Giver]

I know from His words in Scripture that there is nothing a human can do that can undo God's grace, because His Grace is uncreated, infinite, and eternal. Where sin abounds, grace does much more abound.

I know from Scripture and the Fathers of the Church that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

I know from Scripture that humans will err, and will fall away, but that they may always return to the true path.

You know from First Opinions 3:15 that deliberate sin is of Satan. Meanwhile, I know that it is of humanity as we see it from Scripture.

When your opinion contradicts Scripture, your opinion must be flushed down the toilet.

If on sins he or she are of the devil. John told us that, and one should know that the devil would never enter the kingdom of God.

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

 

[sculleywr]

If on sins he or she are of the devil. John told us that, and one should know that the devil would never enter the kingdom of God.

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

Well, what about your arrogance or pride? One has to be full of pride to claim to be sinless. Besides that, if any man claims to be without sin, then he has deceived himself and the truth is not in him.

That's the danger of taking one verse and building your whole theology on it. You have made the grave error of believing something that other portions of the Bible claim to be untrue because one verse, taken completely out of context, makes such a claim.

You and I, we are both sinners. Now, either confess your sins, or go elsewhere, for humility is far more worthy than yelling out that you're sinless.

 

[Going Merry]

giver is awesome

 

[sculleywr]

giver is awesome

Awesome entertainment for me I need to be blunt sometimes

 

[motherprayer]

Well, what about your arrogance or pride? One has to be full of pride to claim to be sinless. Besides that, if any man claims to be without sin, then he has deceived himself and the truth is not in him.

That's the danger of taking one verse and building your whole theology on it. You have made the grave error of believing something that other portions of the Bible claim to be untrue because one verse, taken completely out of context, makes such a claim.

You and I, we are both sinners. Now, either confess your sins, or go elsewhere, for humility is far more worthy than yelling out that you're sinless.

I'm a sinner. And I'm saved. Did you ever hear about what actually happens when a person gets baptized?

 

[sculleywr]

I'm a sinner. And I'm saved. Did you ever hear about what actually happens when a person gets baptized?

The work of Theosis begins at Baptism, but never is finished, in most cases, until eternity.

 

[Giver]

Well, what about your arrogance or pride? One has to be full of pride to claim to be sinless. Besides that, if any man claims to be without sin, then he has deceived himself and the truth is not in him.

That's the danger of taking one verse and building your whole theology on it. You have made the grave error of believing something that other portions of the Bible claim to be untrue because one verse, taken completely out of context, makes such a claim.

You and I, we are both sinners. Now, either confess your sins, or go elsewhere, for humility is far more worthy than yelling out that you're sinless.

Read this, you need to see John was saying: “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar.” Can’t you see John was telling people everyone has sinned, and one would be a liar if he said they had not? John was not telling people who no longer sinned that they were liars by admitting they no longer sinned.

By not believing that John is telling us we are to live without sinning is calling John a liar. John tells us one who sins has never known God.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

 

[Going Merry]

I was a sinner, and now I am a saint

 

[motherprayer]

The work of Theosis begins at Baptism, but never is finished, in most cases, until eternity.

Well, yea. Aw I had a different answer. You're aposta say what lol

What is theosis?