Once Saved, Always Saved question???

[DawnTillery]

I hope I am not posting on something that is too controversial for this forum, if I am, I am truly sorry.
I attened a church on Sunday and the minister started out with this and saying no matter what we cant be plucked from gods hand. I dont understand this? If we accept jesus as our savior and repent for our sins.. We can keep on sinning? and Jesus dont care? I dont know if I believe that. I believe if we turn away from God that we would have to rebuild that relationship? I would just like your opinions and ideas. I have since then decided to attend another church, but what if this church I go to says the same thing? I have been told so many different things about what that means? I would be thankful for anyones input on this as I try to find the right answers Thank you and God Bless

 

[The_White]

Hi again

If you can say that you are saved and therefore you can do whatever and it is OK because Jesus will just forgive you, that is not cool. If you sin, you are still saved as long as you are still repentant and still want a relationship with him. If you walk away then you are away HOWEVER if you come back and truly come back you will be recieved with open arms once again.

 

[God_follower]

Nicely put. Yes, if you have faith in Jesus to save you then you cannot be snatched from His hand, but you can jump out of His hand, . Paul said this in romans 7 I believe, "grace increases where sin aboundeth, so should one sin more to attain more grace? May it never be." Just love Jesus and God and pursue that and you will be ok, just keep searching and asking, God is faithful to provide

-Godbless

 

[Endure2]

well many people believe that salvation is eternally secure for reasons sufficient to them.

i cannot accept that for reasons like

1. peter said in 2peter 2.20
that if after someone has escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, and are entangled therein again, their end is worse than the first.

and a few other scriptures that clearly show it is possible to be corrupted again by sin.

2. the bible makes it very clear that living this life as christian is not a one time experience. it gives very clear warnings and instructions over and over, to stay strong in spirit, to give heed unto prayer, to walk in the spirit so you dont fullfill the lust of the flesh, to meditate in the word day and night, to renew your spirit daily, to not receive the grace of God in vain, to not finish in the flesh that which you began in the spirit, to hold fast to that which you have heard so it doesnt slip, to not make shipwreck of our faith as other men did, to be wary because the devil goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, to not fall from grace, to not go back to the law...etc.

we have all these warnings, and God never commands us to do anything we would do anyway, if God felt he needed to warn us and instruct us on how to keep what we have and stay strong, its becuase there is a chance we could lose it.

becuase if you dont heed the instructions of the word of God, your relationship with God will grow cold, your spirit will be feeble, your flesh will take control and youll go back to sin, and you can fall away from God, and your end be worse than your first.

praise God that even when we fall down all we have to do is receive grace, but not everyone does that, i know people who where genuinely saved, and dont want anything to do with God today. their running from God, are in clear disobedience, and if they died right now, theyd go to hell becuase they are willingly wallowing in sin and enjoying it, and the wages of sin is death, theyve received the grace of God in vain.

 

[DawnTillery]

Yes as you quoted

1. peter said in 2peter 2.20
that if after someone has escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, and are entangled therein again, their end is worse than the first.
thats what I am talking about - although I dont have all the answers because I have been told so many things.
If you find your way to the lord and then turn your back on him, thats has to be worse than never knowing him, because you knew and you turned your back..
I really believe that god will lead me to the right church and I will know when I get there. Untill then I will keep searching and praying.
Thank you all for your inputs and information.

well many people believe that salvation is eternally secure for reasons sufficient to them.

i cannot accept that for reasons like

1. peter said in 2peter 2.20
that if after someone has escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, and are entangled therein again, their end is worse than the first.

and a few other scriptures that clearly show it is possible to be corrupted again by sin.

2. the bible makes it very clear that living this life as christian is not a one time experience. it gives very clear warnings and instructions over and over, to stay strong in spirit, to give heed unto prayer, to walk in the spirit so you dont fullfill the lust of the flesh, to meditate in the word day and night, to renew your spirit daily, to not receive the grace of God in vain, to not finish in the flesh that which you began in the spirit, to hold fast to that which you have heard so it doesnt slip, to not make shipwreck of our faith as other men did, to be wary because the devil goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, to not fall from grace, to not go back to the law...etc.

we have all these warnings, and God never commands us to do anything we would do anyway, if God felt he needed to warn us and instruct us on how to keep what we have and stay strong, its becuase there is a chance we could lose it.

becuase if you dont heed the instructions of the word of God, your relationship with God will grow cold, your spirit will be feeble, your flesh will take control and youll go back to sin, and you can fall away from God, and your end be worse than your first.

praise God that even when we fall down all we have to do is receive grace, but not everyone does that, i know people who where genuinely saved, and dont want anything to do with God today. their running from God, are in clear disobedience, and if they died right now, theyd go to hell becuase they are willingly wallowing in sin and enjoying it, and the wages of sin is death, theyve received the grace of God in vain.

 

[Iosias]

CHAPTER XVII.

Of The Perseverance of the Saints.

I. They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.



II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which arises also the certainty and infallibility thereof. III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; and, for a time, continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve His Holy Spirit, come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

From the Westminster Confession

 

[BlackOmen]

I've got a question myself. Do you go to Hell if you don't believe in God or if you are unsure? I sometimes am skeptical. I can't help it I just am. Maybe becaus theres no solid proof. I like scientific facts.

 

[Iosias]

You either believe in God or you do not. Everyone has doubts at some time or other but this is either (a) testing from God, or (b) Satanic trickery.

 

[DawnTillery]

If you pray and read the bible you will get your answers.

Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of god?"
John 11:40

I've got a question myself. Do you go to Hell if you don't believe in God or if you are unsure? I sometimes am skeptical. I can't help it I just am. Maybe becaus theres no solid proof. I like scientific facts.

 

[Endure2]

AV1611

ya know, the thing is, thats a really impressive quotation, but thats not what the word says.

peter told us that we must be DILIGENT TO MAKE OUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE. and if we must be diligent, then no it isnt simply sure to be.

paul said that he did not receive the grace of God in vain, becuase he worked. paul specificly speaks to us and says not to recieve the grace of God in vain.
if we can do this, which its apparent that we can, then no our election isnt only determined by the power of Gods election and grace.

and just in case your think to speak on it, no i do not believe the common theory of predestination, that if God chose for you to be saved then you simply will be and if you dont get saved then apparently he never chose you or you would be, i dont believe that and never will for good reasons.

 

[Endure2]

blackomen

hi there,
scientific facts are good, but they are not enough, and there are many truths that will never be supported by scientific facts. people who raise up science like a God never really step into the powerful relationship with God that he has for them. becuase they expect it all to fit into their science, making science the thing they REALLY worship and not God.

God is spirit, not flesh, and like my friend alfred says, if God is creator and complete, and if we are incomplete becuase were only the depedant creations, then we need faith.

we will never be able to fit all of God into our realms of understanding and our equations, well never be able to explain or prove all of him, becuase of the vast power and infinite that makes him God.
if you demand God to flow to you through the regulator of our scientific understanding, then youll never know God like you need to.
science is his creation, and the creator is always beyond the limits and abilities of the creation.

The bible makes it very clear, that unless you are born again, you cannot enter the kingdom of God, Jesus very firmly said that He was the only way to the father, he condemned all other religous beliefs and claimed soul ownership to the pathway to heavon, and he condemned all indiffrence, Jesus said if you arent with me your agaisnt me and if you dont gather with me you scatter from me.

if you do not believe in the gospel message of God, yes hell is your fate.
not becuase he doesnt love you, but becuase you refuse the simple path he died to open for you.

science is a great servant, but its a terrible master.
use it when its good, but when it isnt enough leave it behind.
God has always reached beyond the laws of science when he saw it fit, and he will continue.
Science is Gods utility, not his master.

Godbless you,
Lee.

 

[BlackOmen]

I don't believe that you'd go to Hell if you don't believe in God. Theres so many different religions out there and explanations that it's hard for one to decide which he/she believes to be right. I mean since he doesn't come down or send someone down to prove to us that christianity is the correct religion then I would think that he can understand if some doesn't believe in him.

 

[God_follower]

He sent Jesus

 

[mlmum]

Why would you want to go to heaven and worship God if you didn't believe in Him?

Blackomen, have you looked at any apologetics? Science is based on a belief. Just as christianity is based on a belief. If you approach science with a christian perspective, there is proof of things such as young earth, that we did not descend from apes. While I don't necessarily understand or agree with all christian apologetics, I no longer trust what I am taught as science.

Also, how does science not proove a (our) God? Does not the expeditions to Mars etc show that Earth is perfectly suited to our needs? How do you explain the perfection and intricate detail in everything on earth without God?

Science is Gods utility, not his master. That's a great line. Do you mind if I use it in future?

Also, some people have false beliefs about God. My dad believes there is a god, but he is not doing a good enough job and he (my dad) could do it better!

May God bless us all with understanding...

 

[mlmum]

Might i also add that other religions don't contain the truth.

As another part of apologetics, the study of the bible and other religious 'holy books' Christianity is the only one which truly contains the truth.

Example that the earth is suspended on nothing. Other religions have the earth being suspended by animals etc. You can find some information on
www.answersingenesis.org

Or try the apologetics section on CF.

 

[BlackOmen]

I never said there wasn't a God. Im just saying I don't know. Maybe other religioms are true, maybe not. Every single religion on Earth could be false. Yes even ours. Christianity. I'm just saying nothings certian. And as for Earth being perfect for us (just as Mars may be perfect for other beings) I think that God made it that way. Or on a scientific perspective it formed that way or we adapted to it so that it was perfect for us. Or possably God didn't just snap his fingers and it was there (I know that's not the way it happend) he could've made it slowly change or made us evolve to adapt to it. BTW, how do you PM on here?

 

[mlmum]

PM by clicking on the person's name.

I agree that we don't know anything.

As a new christian I heard someone ask 'How do you get faith' and a pastor said you 'know that you know that you know'... At the time I thought this was ludicrous. But now, after being exposed to more of the bible and other christians I am beginning to 'know'. It is a conviction that settles in your heart and no matter what you are asked you will not say that it is false.

There is a passage about not following every new idea, but I can't find it. Will post when I do.

Maria

 

[God_follower]

Faith is universal, we never get more or less, it just depends on how much of what we have we use. we only use like 5-10% of our brains or something like that, if we used 100% of it things would be way different, same with faith, we grow into our own faith. Christianity is the correct thing because I believe it is and I have had to many experiences that make God real. I chose to love God. I would say that people chose to believe or not, increase faith that way until God informs you of another way.

I'm sorry you dont know, I dont know, but i believe. You can't know God in the traditional sence, He is spirit. keep seeking

 

[Endure2]

black omen,
the thing is, Jesus came and boldly stood and said unless you are born again, you will not see the Lord or that is go to heavon.
and if you do not believe that you dont have any context to even speak of the christian heavon. Jesus just didnt give us a choice.
he came and showed forth mighty miracles to testify of the truth, and even beyond that, christianity is the only one that will truely bear witness with your spirit, because all else are lies, if you honestly seek it, youll find that it is true..

 

[cygnusx1]

For me the whole thing can be simplified......if you are born-again you become a child of God.........you are always going to be that child of God , the relationship may suffer but the bond is unbreakable. (Romans 8)