Once Saved Always Saved? Please Help!!

KellyAnne · Sep 19, 2011

Big Drew said:
Here's the way I see it...if we say a little prayer and ask Jesus into our lives, but continue to live like hell then we are making a mockery of Christ's atonement. On the other hand...none of us are perfect, and we are going to sin in some form or another, daily...when the Spirit reveals to us that something in our life is sinful we need to repent of that...repent doesn't mean just saying I'm sorry, it means we turn away from that which is a hindrance to our faith and do our best, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to not repeat that same action again.

So, my opinion is, as long as we are doing all we can to live a godly life we are saved...but if we fall out of fellowship with the Lord we will have to suffer the consequences...

Thank you for this well written post

Stephen Kendall · Sep 19, 2011

I made this post somewhere else in Christianforums. It may help you understand, at least some of how I deal with the variety market of faiths:

We are followers of Christ and he is our Lord. We are not followers of a church and definitely it is not our Lord. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to be our teacher and comforter. We obey the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ and listen & spread his Gospel. We do not obey the teachings and commands of anyone or anything else or listen to their Gospel. The Torah is highly letter & dot accurate. The New Testament by the guidance of the Holy Spirit is very spiritually accurate. Ask and the Holy Spirit will help you through it and understand our Father and Jesus Christ.

I didn't form a doctrine, but only obedience to the teachings & commands of a man called Jesus, who is the son of the Living God and our Lord & Messiah. I ignore Christendom's theologies, lacking creeds and very questionable guidance. I point people towards Jesus through the New Testament and his Gospel. It is nice to know where you stand. I wish that others did, so that they could obey Christ and truly love their many varied Christian brothers and sisters.

JPW93 · Sep 20, 2011

Any sin can send a man to hell, it's only through repentance and God's grace, in which we can be made right again.
I don't believe in the doctrine of once saved always saved, it's a false doctrine in which the Bible is not in favour of at all. In Paul's letter to Galatia, he warned about falling from grace: Gal 5:1-4.

NEW SONG · Sep 20, 2011

JPW93 said:
Any sin can send a man to hell, it's only through repentance and God's grace, in which we can be made right again.
I don't believe in the doctrine of once saved always saved, it's a false doctrine in which the Bible is not in favour of at all. In Paul's letter to Galatia, he warned about falling from grace: Gal 5:1-4.

Sounds like the sin of Adam according to you is far greater then the blood of the lamb. God caused the fall and God had a savior long before he had a sinner.

ojohn · Sep 20, 2011

b ring your sin to Jesus to his cross ,his everlasting one time for all time sacrifice confess with intention of not doing again Read 1st John c-1 v7-9 hope this helps,However you can start at v-1 and read through v-10

Memukan · Sep 20, 2011

Praise Yah BeccaCheria.

I hear the yearning in your heart, how much more does our FATHER who LOVES you. Quit watching youtube and so called Christian TV. Read and Pray Read and Pray and by all means worship HIM Praise Yah

JPW93 · Sep 21, 2011

NEW SONG said:
Sounds like the sin of Adam according to you is far greater then the blood of the lamb. God caused the fall and God had a saviour long before he had a sinner.

I don't think that sin is greater than our Saviours blood at all, but the scriptures plainly state that a sin can send you to hell.
Mat 7:13 says that the majority of people will go to hell, even Christians: Mat 7:21-23.
That's why we have been given the gift to repent and change our actions, through the grace of the Lord.
If we are going to be saved no matter what, what would be the need for repentance?

NEW SONG · Sep 21, 2011

JPW93

I don't think that sin is greater than our Saviours blood at all.

Well that is what tou are saying in a round about way.

but the scriptures plainly state that a sin can send you to hell.
Mat 7:13 says that the majority of people will go to hell, even Christians: Mat 7:21-23.

I was banned for a week for even trying to discuss this from this forum

That's why we have been given the gift to repent and change our actions, through the grace of the Lord.

Yes we are saved by grace not faith. Man has no freewill to choose God and God is not calling all people now.

If we are going to be saved no matter what, what would be the need for repentance?

It is part of the salvation process. The word repent also means to change our minds something the religious mindset cannot do.

JPW93 · Sep 21, 2011

"Well that is what tou are saying in a round about way."

Well.....I'm not. If sin was greater than our Saviours blood, then we couldn't be forgiven, which thankfully we can.

JPW93 · Sep 21, 2011

NEW SONG said:
JPW93 Yes we are saved by grace not faith. Man has no freewill to choose God and God is not calling all people now.

I'm not sure if you are in favour of John Calvin's views or not, I can't be sure.
Answering this quote though, it is true God has made himself known to us and we could never find him. But at the same time, he has given us free will to choose whether we allow him into our lives or not. (This is not to say that we can decide our salvation).

What do you mean by God is not calling all people now?

NEW SONG · Sep 21, 2011

JPW93 said:
"Well that is what tou are saying in a round about way."

Well.....I'm not. If sin was greater than our Saviours blood, then we couldn't be forgiven, which thankfully we can.

This might be true for you and I and a very few. But according to you and those that believe like you this is not the case and excludes the BILLIONS who never had even a chance to know Him now and in the thousands of ages in the pass or the ages to come.

No where in the Bible does it ever address carnal man has a will to choose anything spiritual. Salvation is a spiritual experence.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (amp)
　　　 14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
Romans 3: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

NEW SONG · Sep 21, 2011

JPW93 said:
I'm not sure if you are in favour of John Calvin's views or not, I can't be sure.
Answering this quote though, it is true God has made himself known to us and we could never find him. But at the same time, he has given us free will to choose whether we allow him into our lives or not. (This is not to say that we can decide our salvation).

What do you mean by God is not calling all people now?

I am not a Calvinist. I quote God's Word not some long dead church leader.

Where does it say man can freely choose his own salvation?

Eph 2:1-9 gives a clear view in context how the salvation process is accomplished in carnal man.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast

And then we have:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw

(Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The word draw in the Greek means to be dragged or forced. Now there are many ways God can draw us but point being it is not by our own freewill or choice for we are not spiritual.

　

NEW SONG · Sep 21, 2011

JPW93 said:
What do you mean by God is not calling all people now?

God is not calling all people now.
　
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even　 as many as the Lord our God shall call."

1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
　
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
　
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
　
Rom 9: 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
　21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
　
So an understanding of these verses can show that all in every single man is called to salvation..
　
The matt 22 passage is giving us to know, that Israel in general was a called people nationally, all in Israel were of Gods national covenant people, that came up out of egypt, but there was only a chosen remnant in the nation..so in this sense many in Israel had been called but few chosen..Also in General, when the gospel call for the elect is preached, its in hearing of the non elect, hence they outwardly hear the call of the elect who hear it inwardly and effectually..but its abundantly clear in scripture to the honest reader, that all are not called to salvation as in rom 8:
　
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
　
　

GrowingInGrace · Sep 21, 2011

-deleted by poster

JPW93 · Sep 21, 2011

NEW SONG said:
Where does it say man can freely choose his own salvation?

Maybe I should clarify myself. I believe God makes himself known to us and it's only through his grace and his son, our Saviour in which we can be saved.
However, there were conditions placed on our salvation, and we have been given free moral agency to decide whether or not to follow God's law.

For example:

Romans 10:12,13 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." This is a choice and shows that we have free will.
Matthew 23:27 talks about how Jerusalem rejected Jesus out of their own choice.
Luke 18:22,23, the rich man walks away from a direct call from Jesus.

In fact any command, we can choose to ignore or obey and this is evidence of free will. So by obeying the Lord's commands we have been promised that we can have salvation in him. For those who do not, do not enter into salvation.

JPW93 · Sep 21, 2011

NEW SONG said:
So an understanding of these verses can show that all in every single man is called to salvation..

I don't agree with this statement, that every person will be saved. There are many verses that show that people are going to hell for eternity, as sad as it is, it's true.

JPW93 · Sep 21, 2011

NEW SONG said:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

I don't think that we can earn our salvation through our works by any means, it's impossible.
However our works are important to God, in fact Jesus said "If you love me keep my commandments" (KJV).

Migdala · Sep 21, 2011

I believe that we can walk away and forfeit our salvation, but I also believe that we can repent and turn back to the Lord again. The parable of the Prodigal son is a good example, as well as all the many times in the Bible that God says "Repent, and return to Me!"

I believe that if we are following Jesus and have turned from our sins when we die, we will be saved. But if we say a "sinners prayer" as a kid and then live a life of sin and reject Jesus, then die, no I don't think a person will enter Heaven. I think it's all in what you believe and how you are living at the time of your death, or when Jesus returns, not just whether you said a prayer as a child. Many have backslidden and returned and Jesus welcomed them. Think of Peter after he denied Christ 3 times. He was certainly not "following Christ" when he denied Him, yet he cried and was sorrowful over his sins and Jesus welcomed him back with open arms.

NEW SONG · Sep 21, 2011

JPW93 said:
Maybe I should clarify myself. I believe God makes himself known to us and it's only through his grace and his son, our Saviour in which we can be saved.
However, there were conditions placed on our salvation, and we have been given free moral agency to decide whether or not to follow God's law.

For example:

[*]Romans 10:12,13 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." This is a choice and shows that we have free will.
[*]

Click to expand...

The Greek word interpreted whosoever is pas which also means all. The word whosoever is a word that excludes, where the word all does not exclude.
The word "whosoever" ishould be rendered "all"; in the original it is the word usually rendered all throughout the New Testament; it occurs hundreds of times, and it is rendered "all" in over nine hundred instances, and whosoever in only about forty; the rendering all then is plainly the usual one.

Matthew 23:27 talks about how Jerusalem rejected Jesus out of their own choice.

Jesus had not died yet. Salvation comes by the blood of Jesus.

[*]Luke 18:22,23, the rich man walks away from a direct call from Jesus.
[*]

Click to expand...

Again Luke 18:22-23 is not addressing salvation or freewill for Jesus had not died yet it is addressing the extremes of how riches of our mind can overtake our mindset.

Luke 18:22-23
King James Version (KJV)

22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

In fact any command, we can choose to ignore or obey and this is evidence of free will. So by obeying the Lord's commands we have been promised that we can have salvation in him. For those who do not, do not enter into salvation.

Click to expand...

I gave you four examples of God's Word that totally counter that man has a freewill towards salvation yet you show us these examples that do not address man's salvation or caranl man having a free will or choice. Do not these verses totally refute man has a frewwill or choice?

Here they are again:

Eph 2:1-9 gives a clear view in context how the salvation process is accomplished in carnal man.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast

And then we have:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw

1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (amp)
　　　 14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

Romans 3: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

NEW SONG · Sep 21, 2011

JPW93 said:
I don't agree with this statement, that every person will be saved. There are many verses that show that people are going to hell for eternity, as sad as it is, it's true.

Sorry to say I cannot comment on this statement or I will be banned. So this is a one sided conversation.

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