Once Saved Always Saved? Please Help!!

[BeccaCheria]

My fellow brothers and sister in Christ I need your help! After being in a backslidden state for 8 years I have over the past few months rededicated my life to Jesus. You see in God's mercy he allowed me to come to a point where I was so broken that I finally realized that only when I am serving Him there is joy, love and peace in my life. Over these past months I have been seeking the Lord with all of my heart, because I have this hunger and thirst for Him that I NEED to satisfy. However, the thing is that many people who claim to be God's children are telling me different things that is confusing me and causing me to be frustrated in my walk with God. I am so confused because I want to know the truth, I don't want to believe in any false doctrines, false teachings or be led astray. On Youtube I have been listening to a couple of youtubers such as finalcall07. They all seem like children of God and they all quote from the scripture but while googleing them there are alot of people saying "oh these people are false prophets and are teaching false things, what the bible really says is this..." Then these people teach what they think is the truth, and then another group of people say that these people are false as well! Some of the issues that I am confused about, because so many people are teaching conflicting things is the issue of Once Saved Always Saved. Some are saying that you cannot no matter what you do lose your salvation, while other people are saying that OSAS is false because it gives people a free license to sin and that you can be totally free of sin, but if you ever do sin repent right away because you can go to hell if you don't, and that yes we are saved by grace only but if you don't do good works then that proves that you are not really saved. Both types of people use biblical scriptures to back up their view and they strongly say the other is teaching false doctrine... Well what is THE TRUTH?? Can someone please help me!! I am so confused and I feel so lost now... One of my biggest fears is that Jesus will say "depart from me for I never knew you." I love Jesus so much and I just want to follow Him and please Him, but how can I do that fully when I am doubting what is true and what is false? I read my bible and pray but I do not know....I just don't know..please help me.

 

[Big Drew]

Here's the way I see it...if we say a little prayer and ask Jesus into our lives, but continue to live like hell then we are making a mockery of Christ's atonement. On the other hand...none of us are perfect, and we are going to sin in some form or another, daily...when the Spirit reveals to us that something in our life is sinful we need to repent of that...repent doesn't mean just saying I'm sorry, it means we turn away from that which is a hindrance to our faith and do our best, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to not repeat that same action again.

So, my opinion is, as long as we are doing all we can to live a godly life we are saved...but if we fall out of fellowship with the Lord we will have to suffer the consequences...

 

[dayhiker]

Becca,
I could give you my view on OSAS, but that would only confuse you more, no doubt. This teaching is minor stuff in the scheme of things. People from both sides love Jesus and you have observed and they will be with Jesus for eternity. Its easy for us to look at some of these doctrines a little differently from others. But that isn't what is of 1st importance. First is to love God, 2nd is to love people. Love isn't going to get you frustrated like trying understand to some secondary topic. If you were loving the debate and research on this topic I'd say enjoy yourself. But its causing confusion and frustration, so drop it. Your seeking God and loving Jesus and wanting the Holy Spirit to lead you so that's all you need. Relax and enjoy your relationship with Jesus. Invite some others to join you.

 

[Big Drew]

Becca,
I could give you my view on OSAS, but that would only confuse you more, no doubt. This teaching is minor stuff in the scheme of things. People from both sides love Jesus and you have observed and they will be with Jesus for eternity. Its easy for us to look at some of these doctrines a little differently from others. But that isn't what is of 1st importance. First is to love God, 2nd is to love people. Love isn't going to get you frustrated like trying understand to some secondary topic. If you were loving the debate and research on this topic I'd say enjoy yourself. But its causing confusion and frustration, so drop it. Your seeking God and loving Jesus and wanting the Holy Spirit to lead you so that's all you need. Relax and enjoy your relationship with Jesus. Invite some others to join you.

I have to disagree on OSAS being minor...as the OP mentioned, some people take it as a license to sin...no matter what we do God's got us covered...this can lead many souls down the path of destruction....

Here's an article I wrote on the subject...

Do we, as Believers, have a license to sin? Because we’re covered by the Blood of Christ does this mean we can do whatever we want, whenever we want? Obviously not, yet, there are some doctrines going around today that would lead us to believe that sin is okay.
Now, sure, we’re human, and as humans we’re fallible…being a Believer does not automatically make us perfect. Perfection is something we strive for daily, but will not be accomplished until we are living eternally with our Saviour. But, we must remember that there is a difference between making a mistake and willfully sinning.
In the 10th chapter of Hebrews, the author writes:

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
​

So, what does this mean? Well…let’s look at a couple of examples.
It’s late at night, you’re watching television, flipping channels, and you happen upon a movie with a nude scene, and you linger a little longer than you should. You then realize what you’ve done, change the channel, ask God to forgive you for your moment of weakness…all is forgotten.
It’s late at night and the desire strikes you to look at pornography, you know it’s wrong, but you give in to your flesh and begin browsing porn sites on the internet…knowing the whole time that you shouldn’t be doing this, but at this point in time, you don’t care.
The first is an example of a mistake, the second is a deliberate and willful sin.
We can think of this in terms of the law of the land. Involuntary manslaughter has a much lighter punishment than premeditated murder, right?
When we willfully sin we are rejecting the conviction of the Holy Spirit. It’s like a slap in the face to God…it’s not showing Him reverence, only satisfying our carnal desires.
Many people subscribe to a doctrine known as Eternal Security, and believe that no matter what they do, they’re going to heaven. This idea scares me. True, nothing can separate us from God, and He will never break His promise…but this needs to be taken one step further…so long as we are striving to do His will nothing can separate us from Him. He will never break His promise, but that doesn’t automatically mean that we, the flawed humans, will not break ours.
Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that all proponents of Eternal Security have this mindset…some believe just as I do…but there are many who do not. And this comes down to either improper teaching or improper understanding of God’s Holy Word.
It’s my prayer that people’s eyes will be opened, and that they will come to realize that having a relationship with Jesus Christ of Nazareth, does not mean we can do whatever we want…but that because of this relationship, whenever we make a mistake, He’s got us covered.
Thank you and may His grace be upon you.

 

[thisnamztaken]

The pro and con OSAS debate has gone on for centuries, if I'm not mistaken, and will probably continue until Christ returns for us. There are sincere Christians on both sides of the debate.

I believe the Bible teaches that if anyone has been regenerated (Titus 3:5-7) by the Spirit of God through seeing their own sinfulness, turning away ("repenting") from their previously held attitude of loving sin, and putting their faith in Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension on their behalf, they are not only saved, but no longer make "good sinners".

We are "born again" (Jn.3:3,6) not of human seed/sperm like that which produced our fleshly bodies, but by the eternal, incorruptible, spiritual seed of God's Word (I Pet. 1:23). From that point on we have a new Christ-like nature (II Cor. 5:17), but we also still have our flesh/old nature that is sin-prone. All true believers have this war between the flesh and the Spirit going on inside them as described in Gal.5:16-25.

Once again, it is because we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us, that we cannot ultimately feel good about sinning or being "back-slidden". We can still sin, but can no longer feel good about it in our heart and conscience once we have yielded to it. God will always be faithful to correct and discipline His children through one method or many if necessary.
"No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God (I Jn. 3:9, AMP.).

The Holy Spirit will always be faithful to convict us of sin (Jn.16:8) and draw us back into loving fellowship with God the Father and Jesus the Son, the second we confess and turn away from that sin. - I Jn. 1:9

The fact that you are unhappy sinning, love Jesus, and want to serve Him, tells me that you are God's child and that He is drawing you back to Himself. Keep seeking Him in prayer and His Word. Read and memorize His promises in Jn. 6:37, I Jn. 1:9 and Heb. 13:5 which will help you cast down Satan's lies about your relationship with God through Christ.

 

[lilmissmontana]

didn't read the other posts, so I apologize if my post is redundant ...

my take on OSAS ... I believe without a shadow of a doubt that yes, once saved always saved ...

that being said ... I also believe we can fall so far we fall straight into hell ...

to me once saved always saved means that the door of Salvation is always open ... if we repent and ask for forgiveness Salvation is right there waiting ... to me to teach differently is like teaching the Lord is mean in spirit ... Jesus didn't make a mistake when He saved us ... afterall, it is in His time that we are saved ... no one comes unless they are called ... I will never believe the Lord didn't know we would fall or made a mistake and it wasn't really a good time to get saved ... we all fall ... the key is in the repenting and effort to do better ... He wants that none should perish and makes every effort ... why wopuld the door be shut ... He is the Door ... and He is Salvation ... He doesn't close the door ... we do ...

may the Lord bless you on the Way ...
lilmiss

 

[Biblicist]

BeccaCheria,

Even though there has been some good advice given on this post, and I won't say what my own position is on this matter; I would strongly advise you to seek some wise counsel from your congregation on this issue as I'm not convinced that it a good question to raise on a public forum.

Having read your post as best as I can, it does seem that you are merely acknowledging to the Lord that you have not lived and honoured him as you should have over the past 8 years; your situation does seem a bit different from someone who has publicly denounced Jesus and rejected him outright.

 

[Vince53]

Is there such a thing as everlasting life?





Can you have everlasting life right now?





If you lose it, was it everlasting?

 

[thesunisout]

I tend to be of the mind that it is possible for you to lose your salvation. I really want to believe "OSAS", because my mother was once saved when she was 12, and although she is a very "moral" person, she now rejects Christ as God and won't hear anything about it. So I have every motivation to believe it, but I don't think scripture supports it. The question is whether salvation is conditional or not. I think scripture makes it plain that it is conditional:

You have verses like these which show a servant can become wicked and earn the punishment of an unbeliever:

Matthew 24:48

But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.

The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.

He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You have these verses placing conditions on salvation:

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26

If there is no sacrifice for sins left, it means we are again under judgement for sin, and we know that the penalty for sin is death.

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:19

Here you can plainly lose your salvation for subtracting from the book of Revelation.

So, from these and many others, it seems like we can definitely lose our salvation.

Jesus Himself said:

Luke 12:5

But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Although we have many reasons to have a godly fear, this verse seems to indicate why we seek out our salvation with "fear and trembling"

I could be wrong but I think scripture is plain that "many are chosen but few are called", and "narrow is the road that leads to life and few find it".

Now, that isn't to say that if it is true, we should be constantly terrified that God is going to throw us into hell.

2 Timothy 1:7

For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.

On the contrary, we should have the confidence to go boldly before Gods very throne:

Hebrews 4:16

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

So, how do we stay in good standing with God? One word: Obedience.

John 14:23

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

John 8:51

I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

Now, this doesn't mean that if we are disobedient by sinning, we are automatically in danger of losing our salvation.

Romans 8:1

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

So. while we remain in Christ, we are not subject to the law. So, sin has no real power over us.

It seems that, again, the danger is here:

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26

So, if we decide within ourselves to willfully sin because we expect the blood of Jesus to cover it, we put ourselves in danger. It is not that God won't forgive us for sin, it is that He won't allow us to manipulate grace:

Hebrews 10:29

How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

So, if we do sin, what is the solution? To repent:

Acts 3:19

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out

It's not as if God doesn't know we are going to screw up. He says very clearly that He disciplines us like a loving Father would:

Revelation 3:19

Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Proverbs 3:12

because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.

He does it to keep us on the straight and narrow:

1 Corinthians 11:32

When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

I think the key point is this:

Philippians 4:13

I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

I don't think that just because you fell away for awhile that you should be worried. Those who are deceived don't know they are deceived. That's what being deceived means. The fact that you came back proves that you belong to the Lord, because only His sheep know His voice. Just make sure not to take His gift of salvation for granted. The Holy Spirit will teach you:

1 Corinthians 2:12

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

He guides us into all truth

John 16:13

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

I hope this is helpful. God bless.

My fellow brothers and sister in Christ I need your help! After being in a backslidden state for 8 years I have over the past few months rededicated my life to Jesus. You see in God's mercy he allowed me to come to a point where I was so broken that I finally realized that only when I am serving Him there is joy, love and peace in my life. Over these past months I have been seeking the Lord with all of my heart, because I have this hunger and thirst for Him that I NEED to satisfy. However, the thing is that many people who claim to be God's children are telling me different things that is confusing me and causing me to be frustrated in my walk with God. I am so confused because I want to know the truth, I don't want to believe in any false doctrines, false teachings or be led astray. On Youtube I have been listening to a couple of youtubers such as finalcall07, Brother Ryan Hicks and a couple of others. They all seem like children of God and they all quote from the scripture but while googleing them there are alot of people saying "oh these people are false prophets and are teaching false things, what the bible really says is this..." Then these people teach what they think is the truth, and then another group of people say that these people are false as well! Some of the issues that I am confused about, because so many people are teaching conflicting things is the issue of Once Saved Always Saved. Some are saying that you cannot no matter what you do lose your salvation, while other people are saying that OSAS is false because it gives people a free license to sin and that you can be totally free of sin, but if you ever do sin repent right away because you can go to hell if you don't, and that yes we are saved by grace only but if you don't do good works then that proves that you are not really saved. Both types of people use biblical scriptures to back up their view and they strongly say the other is teaching false doctrine... Well what is THE TRUTH?? Can someone please help me!! I am so confused and I feel so lost now... One of my biggest fears is that Jesus will say "depart from me for I never knew you." I love Jesus so much and I just want to follow Him and please Him, but how can I do that fully when I am doubting what is true and what is false? I read my bible and pray but I do not know....I just don't know..please help me.

 

[Buzzy]

I refer to the Holy Spirit everything I need to understand and let him guide me through the Word of God. I grew up OSAS and one day the Holy Spirit asked me if I believed Judas Iscariot went to heaven, Ananias and Sapphira went to heaven. I had to say no and since that day I understand that you can walk away from your salvation. We will enter heaven through the narrow gate and not the broad path that many walk on.

 

[Drayzon]

My fellow brothers and sister in Christ I need your help! After being in a backslidden state for 8 years I have over the past few months rededicated my life to Jesus. You see in God's mercy he allowed me to come to a point where I was so broken that I finally realized that only when I am serving Him there is joy, love and peace in my life. Over these past months I have been seeking the Lord with all of my heart, because I have this hunger and thirst for Him that I NEED to satisfy. However, the thing is that many people who claim to be God's children are telling me different things that is confusing me and causing me to be frustrated in my walk with God. I am so confused because I want to know the truth, I don't want to believe in any false doctrines, false teachings or be led astray. On Youtube I have been listening to a couple of youtubers such as finalcall07, Brother Ryan Hicks and a couple of others. They all seem like children of God and they all quote from the scripture but while googleing them there are alot of people saying "oh these people are false prophets and are teaching false things, what the bible really says is this..." Then these people teach what they think is the truth, and then another group of people say that these people are false as well! Some of the issues that I am confused about, because so many people are teaching conflicting things is the issue of Once Saved Always Saved. Some are saying that you cannot no matter what you do lose your salvation, while other people are saying that OSAS is false because it gives people a free license to sin and that you can be totally free of sin, but if you ever do sin repent right away because you can go to hell if you don't, and that yes we are saved by grace only but if you don't do good works then that proves that you are not really saved. Both types of people use biblical scriptures to back up their view and they strongly say the other is teaching false doctrine... Well what is THE TRUTH?? Can someone please help me!! I am so confused and I feel so lost now... One of my biggest fears is that Jesus will say "depart from me for I never knew you." I love Jesus so much and I just want to follow Him and please Him, but how can I do that fully when I am doubting what is true and what is false? I read my bible and pray but I do not know....I just don't know..please help me.

I have always viewed the doctrine of OSAS as a dangerous doctrine. I disagree that a person is a sincere Christian and preach this doctrine. As long as we are in these sinful bodies, we will be by nature sinful, however when we are new in Christ, His Holy Spirit gives us power to overcome the sinful nature. In Matthew 24:41 Jesus states that the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak and in Galatians 5:16-17 Paul states the the Spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit. I tell you if this was not the case, then OSAS would not be a dangerous doctrine.

You yourself have come back from a backslidden state so you know the power of the flesh. Please do not listen to the OSAS doctrine, it is used to satisfy the wants of those who have itching ears or those who do not want to fully live circumspect.

Another thing, a mesage board is the worst place to go if you are confused you will leave more confused. Go talk to your pastor or spiritual advisor. I urge you to seek the truth, which God will reveal to you, but OSAS is not a doctrine you want or need to embrace.

 

[thesunisout]

I have found that Christians who preach this doctrine are usually in some sort of state of habitual sin. They become arrogant and say that it doesn't matter what they do because the blood of Jesus covers them for everything. If you try to tell them differently, they accuse you of blasphemy, and say that you're insulting Jesus because you are saying His work was insufficient, or that you're following the doctrines of devils. It's a terrible heresay which puts Christians in a state of paralysis in their spiritual walk because they lose all respect and fear for God, and see the blood of Jesus as a get out of sin free card. It breeds so much ignorance and arrogance that I think it is one of the worst apostate beliefs there is.

I have always viewed the doctrine of OSAS as a dangerous doctrine. I disagree that a person is a sincere Christian and preach this doctrine. As long as we are in these sinful bodies, we will be by nature sinful, however when we are new in Christ, His Holy Spirit gives us power to overcome the sinful nature. In Matthew 24:41 Jesus states that the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak and in Galatians 5:16-17 Paul states the the Spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit. I tell you if this was not the case, then OSAS would not be a dangerous doctrine.

You yourself have come back from a backslidden state so you know the power of the flesh. Please do not listen to the OSAS doctrine, it is used to satisfy the wants of those who have itching ears or those who do not want to fully live circumspect.

Another thing, a mesage board is the worst place to go if you are confused you will leave more confused. Go talk to your pastor or spiritual advisor. I urge you to seek the truth, which God will reveal to you, but OSAS is not a doctrine you want or need to embrace.

 

[lilmissmontana]

I refer to the Holy Spirit everything I need to understand and let him guide me through the Word of God. I grew up OSAS and one day the Holy Spirit asked me if I believed Judas Iscariot went to heaven, Ananias and Sapphira went to heaven. I had to say no and since that day I understand that you can walk away from your salvation. We will enter heaven through the narrow gate and not the broad path that many walk on.

most excellent post ... thank you ... I don't necessarily agree with the part on Judas, but it doesn't matter ... most excellent points ... and exactly! we walk away from Salvation ... and the Door remains open ... IF we ask for forgiveness and repent ... we don't lose our Salvation, we throw it away ... we know where to find it ... the Lord's not lost ... He is our Salvation

 

[NEW SONG]

The narrow gate is not speaking to the world but it is speaking to God's people. The broad way is religion.

The world could careless about anything spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (amp)
　　　 14But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

God is simply not calling all people now.

 

[Buzzy]

I think the most disturbing thing the religion of OSAS brings is that Jesus changed the word of God. That sin no longer offends God. We know that God from the very start understood there were two kinds of sin. Unintentional sin and Willful sin. In the LAW there could be blood sacrifice given for unintentional sin but no sacrifice could cover willful sin. We see in Hebrews 10:26-31 (

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a zeal of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the son of God, and has regarded as common the blood of the covenant by which he was made holy, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay" (Deut 32:35[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=-1]). [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And again, "The Lord will judge his people" ([/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Deut 32:36[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=-1]). [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.)[/FONT][/SIZE]

Satan's ugliest trick is to make so many people think they can spit in the face of the Savior Jesus's sacrifice and continue to sin after salvation. Jesus referred to those people as Nicolations in Revelations and they are the false teachers we are warned about throught the Bible.

Is there God's forgiveness after willful sin? I think so, but you have to go to God and beg his forgiveness.​

 

[thesunisout]

Agreed. These "Christians" who believe they can manipulate grace are going to be in for a big shock when they stand before the judgement seat. Far from having a free pass, Christians are called to a much higher standard, and are strictly held to it. Anyone who keeps sinning after receiving the Holy Spirit is playing a dangerous game. You even have people who say you don't even have to repent after sinning. These are lies that have come straight from the pit of hell. Apparently the OSAS crowd has never read the parable of the wicked servant:

Matthew 24:48-51

But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I think the most disturbing thing the religion of OSAS brings is that Jesus changed the word of God. That sin no longer offends God. We know that God from the very start understood there were two kinds of sin. Unintentional sin and Willful sin. In the LAW there could be blood sacrifice given for unintentional sin but no sacrifice could cover willful sin. We see in Hebrews 10:26-31 (

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a zeal of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severe punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the son of God, and has regarded as common the blood of the covenant by which he was made holy, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay" (Deut 32:35[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=-1]). [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And again, "The Lord will judge his people" ([/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Deut 32:36[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=-1]). [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.)[/FONT][/SIZE]​

Satan's ugliest trick is to make so many people think they can spit in the face of the Savior Jesus's sacrifice and continue to sin after salvation. Jesus referred to those people as Nicolations in Revelations and they are the false teachers we are warned about throught the Bible. ​

Is there God's forgiveness after willful sin? I think so, but you have to go to God and beg his forgiveness.​

 

[MountainofGod1]

I believe the key to knowing you are saved is knowing that your flesh never improves. It is impossible for your flesh itself to reach a point of salvation, it will lust and desire to sin constantly... and the heart? The heart is the most deceptive thing we have.

 

[Vince53]

Buzzy, the Bible says that Judas was "a devil from the beginning." He did not walk away from his salvation because he never had it.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"I finally realized that only when I am serving Him there is joy, love and peace in my life. Over these past months I have been seeking the Lord with all of my heart, because I have this hunger and thirst for Him that I NEED to satisfy."

Congrats - Coming back is always the BEST thing to do. Been there myself, got the wake up call, and am still on the way back.

"the issue of Once Saved Always Saved."

Think about it this way:

Ralph is GLORIOUSLY SAVED, and has a CHANGE in his life, and becomes part of the church, and can be observed to be "Serving the Lord" for a year or maybe two.

But THEN he seems to "Grow cold", and get busy with "other things", and his church participation decreases and finally stops altogether, and his marriage comes apart, and he's seen in bars, and occasionally drunk, and pretty much back to the way he was BEFORE he was saved.

The Calvinist/Reformed Theologian Confidently proclaims: WELL, Ralph looked Good there for a while, but now we know he was NEVER REALLY SAVED. and he's a lost sinner.

The Arminian Theologian Confidently proclaims: WELL, Ralph looked Good there for a while, but then he "Fell away from the Lord, neglected his salvation, and now he's a lost sinner.

Both side agree perfectly - Ralph is LOST, and needs to be saved.

They disagree on the "Details" - but agree on the outcome.

I USED to be an OSAS believer, but I found that discarding that doctrine (which can NEVER bring "Security") and drawing closer to the Lord personally (where the "Security" REALLY is) was one of the better spiritual "Moves" I ever made. RELATIONSHIP will do what "Doctrine" NEVER can do.

"Can someone please help me!! I am so confused and I feel so lost now..."

Good news - the "Someone" who CAN Help you - is right there WITH you now. HE's the Holy Spirit.

The "HATEFUL voices" that tell you you're NO GOOD, and too much of a SINNER to be really saved, and that you had ONE chance and BLEW IT!!!! The "Voices" that sow "Confusion" (theological and otherwise) -

ARE NOT God's Holy Spirit's voice.

It's satan's boys sent to "Beat you up" over your earlier failure to "Remain true". satan LOVES to do that, he HATES YOU, and he can be VERY persuasive. Tell to take his FILTH and GO AWAY, and LEAVE YOU ALONE!!!!!

That you're CONCERNED about your spiritual condition is proof positive that the Holy Spirit is "Drawing you back" to Him, and that the door's open. You need to QUIT LISTENING to the condemning voices (Scream at 'em and tell 'em to SHUT UP - preferably in private to avoid freaking out others), and talk to God IN THE CONFIDENCE that HE Loves YOU, and wants you to know him better.

I'd suggest NOT bothering with "Christian confusion" Radio, TV, and ABOVE ALL "Internet experts". There's GOOD stuff out there, and there's TOTAL GARBAGE.

Get with a local Baptist, or Assembly of God minister, and have him talk with you/pray with you about the whole issue. WE NEED each other - in PERSON - face to face. Forsake NOT the gathering of yourselves together.

By all means READ YOUR BIBLE. It's the truth, and until you've read it a time or two DON'T read books "about" the bible until you're in a place where you can judge them out of your understanding of the WORD.

 

[River-Dweller]

I haven't read most of this thread. However, I wanted to respond.

I think that Once Saved Always Saved is a false doctrine that is leading millions to hell. You can gain the whole world and lose your soul.

Having said that, I would add that you can lose your soul, not your salvation. You can think you're saved when you're not and thus lose your soul. However, those who have once received true salvation, it is impossible for them to finally fall away. They may backslide for a time and incur the judgment of God. But, God will keep them. Those who are truly saved will ultimately persevere to the end. And, those who persevere to the end will be finally saved. We're saved now, we're being saved, and we will be saved in the future. But, I believe that if you are saved in the first sense then you will eventually be saved in the other two ways.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
John 10:27-30 ESV

Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Jude 24-25 ESV

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:31-39 ESV

And I am sure of this, that he who began ha good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:6 ESV

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:9 ESV

Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9 ESV

The danger is that some who are living in open willful sin take it for granted that they have been saved. And, others who truly are saved doubt their salvation.

Here is one way to tell that you are saved:


The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Romans 8:16-17 ESV

We know that we are His because His Spirit bears witness with ours when we suffer with Him.

Here is another way to know that you are saved:

Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1 John 2:4-6 ESV

I hope that helps.