Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

NewLifeInChristJesus · Mar 23, 2025

Maori Aussie said:
Romans 6:1-2 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace?
Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?

This use of Romans 6:1-2 is curious to me. It was, of course, a defense of Paul's previous statement that where sin abounded, grace abounded much more (Ro 5:20). Those who embrace the triumph of God's grace over sin (Paul, for example) are falsely accused of taking the position that grace warrants additional sinning so that more grace can occur. This, of course, is the position you (and others are taking). As I said above, this is curious to me.

But as Paul goes on to say, that position is untennable be cause people who embrace the triumph of God's grace over their sins have been changed on the inside through their death together with Christ to sin and their ressurection together with Christ from the dead and are now alive to God and dead to sin. They no longer have desires for sin, they don't like sin, and they don't want sin. (As an asside, a study of Paul's "together with Christ" sayings is quite interesting).

I can't see any good reason for people to castigate God's grace or to think that embracing grace is a promotion of sin. Maybe someone could explain that.

Ivan Hlavanda · Mar 23, 2025

Romans 8 said:
Wrong Ivan, I said none of those things. But listen Ivan; Christ has made a way for you if you finish the race. You must die or be raptured to receive salvation and if you're typing on a keyboard then you're neither. Keep running Ivan.Those who claim salvation can be lost are saying that Christ death was not a perfect sacrifice for their sins, and His death was not enough for their salvation, otherwise they would say that salvation cannot be lost.

People who claim salvation can be lost are saying that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was not enough to redeem us, that His death was not enough, otherwise they would say that salvation cannot be lost.

We are saved by grace, not the way we live as Christians or anything that we do. But God alone

Clare73 · Mar 23, 2025

DrGoblin said:
This is a very often and good cited set of reasons. However, a few comments. WE choose whether to follow God/Jesus.

However, only the born again can make such a choice, for unless one is born again of the Holy Spirit one cannot even see (understand) the kingdom of God in order to choose it, for it is foolishness to him (1 Co 2:14).
True obedience is the result of true saving faith, which is a gift (Php 1:29, Ac 3:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3) and not something fallen man can choose.
God must give man the ability to believe.

DrGoblin said:
At any point in our walk, we can choose to abandon God.

The born again are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5), they do not abandon the faith.
Only the unregenerate whose faith is counterfeit abandon the faith.

DrGoblin said:
he will not stop us from becoming a Satanic Priest if we so choose. It doesn't mean we weren't saved. I'm saved, I know that I know that I know I'm saved, but I can willfully walk away toss the free gift of salvation in the trash. God will not stop me.
In saying this none of the following refutes my statements if I so choose to walk away:
Jn 6:37 - All that the Father gives to me will come to me. (i have come to jesus)
Jn 6:39 - I shall lose none of all that the Father has given me. (he didnt lose me, i would have left on my own accord)
Jn 10:28 - My sheep listen to my voice. . .shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of my hand. (if i decide i dont want to be a sheep..., i could leap out of, no need to be snatched)

If no one is strong enough to snatch from God, then no one is strong enough to leap from God.

And this supposed "leaping" would make you a goat, you were never a sheep. . .for sheep don't become goats, and goats don't become sheep.

DrGoblin said:
1 Pe 1:4-5 - The born again have true faith and are kept by the power of God. (kept simply means he will take care of, he isnt imprisoning us)

Let's not tweak the Greek regarding the meaning of "kept."

DrGoblin said:
As for the Mt 7:22-23 reference, your definition is wrong. Unless you have been saved, you cannot apostate. By definition an apostate is someone who renounces their faith. Thus, you have to HAVE faith to renounce it.

There is true faith (of the regenerate) and there is counterfeit faith (of the unregenerate).
True faith does not apostasize, only counterfeit faith apostasizes.

DrGoblin said:
My understanding is simple you can't lose your faith; you can abandon it. We are not slaves to God. We can ague ad infinitum about this but it's pointless since the issue hasn't been resolved in 2000+ years. Pick whatever you want OSAS or not but be aware its not 100% verifiably true or provable or the question itself would have ceased long ago

Who made that rule?

There will always be misunderstanding of truth, just as there likewise will always be understanding of the truth.

Romans 8 · Mar 23, 2025

Ivan Hlavanda said:
People who claim salvation can be lost are saying that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was not enough to redeem us, that His death was not enough, otherwise they would say that salvation cannot be lost.

We are saved by grace, not the way we live as Christians or anything that we do. But God alone

Sure, continue with your straw man argument.

Romans 8 · Mar 23, 2025

Clare73 said:
However, only the born again can make such a choice, for unless one is born again of the Holy Spirit one cannot even see (understand) the kingdom of God in order to choose it, for it is foolishness to him (1 Co 2:14).
True obedience is the result of true saving faith, which is a gift (Php 1:29, Ac 3:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3) and not something fallen man can choose.
God must give man the ability to believe.

The born again are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5), they do not abandon the faith.
Only the unregenerate whose faith is counterfeit abandon the faith.

If no one is strong enough to snatch from God, then no one is strong enough to leap from God.

And this supposed "leaping" would make you a goat, you were never a sheep. . .for sheep don't become goats, and goats don't become sheep.

Let's not tweak the Greek regarding the meaning of "kept."

There is true faith (of the regenerate) and there is counterfeit faith (of the unregenerate).
True faith does not apostate, only counterfeit faith apostates.

Who made that rule?

There will always be misunderstanding of truth, just as there likewise will always be understanding of the truth.

Are you a Calvinist Clare?

Romans 8 · Mar 23, 2025

Clare73 said:
But it's not either/or, it's both/and. . .only those who finish the race are truly saved.

And those who finish the race did so only because they were enabled by the Holy Spirit received in the new birth.

The solution to that notion is correct teaching, the solution is not denying Biblical doctrine.

If people would focus on the actual topic rather than introducing straw man arguments, it wound save time. If you cannot think of an argument to counter the thread, then spend more time in contemplation. If your goal is solely to "win" a debate, then your motivation here is selfish.

One of the posters here complained to the mods that my post hurt their feelings but all I can say is the truth can hurt, put on your big boy pants.

The main thing people should take away from this thread is that SALVATION IS NOT GUARANTEED if one does not have their faith in Jesus at the point of death. We don't own salvation because we prayed a prayer and put our faith in Jesus for ten minutes, or ten years. One must continue to abide in the Christ or he will cut us off:

John 15:6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

These are not works He's speaking about here, it's "anyone who does not remain in me". And this is not a figurative fire here its the fire of hell. You can argue until your face turns blue but there are many verses in the bible which one cannot explain away without compromising their integrity.

HHave fun winning your debate, for those that are unsure of how salvation works, I hope you understand that we CAN lose our way and we must keep our faith until Jesus returns, or we die in our flesh. God bless.

Clare73 · Mar 23, 2025

Romans 8 said:
Are you a Calvinist Clare?

No, I am a Paulist.

But it seems Calvin took quite a bit of his theology from Paul.

Clare73 · Mar 23, 2025

Romans 8 said:
If people would focus on the actual topic rather than introducing straw man arguments, it wound save time. If you cannot think of an argument to counter the thread, then spend more time in contemplation. If your goal is solely to "win" a debate, then your motivation here is selfish.

I understand the actual topic to be:

"OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell."

Romans 8 said:
One of the posters here complained to the mods that my post hurt their feelings but all I can say is the truth can hurt, put on your big boy pants.

The main thing people should take away from this thread is that SALVATION IS NOT GUARANTEED if one does not have their
faith in Jesus at the point of death.

Agreed. . .but that is not the whole story, and I have presented the rest of the story; i.e., we don't keep ourselves, we are kept (in faith and obedience) by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5, Jn 10:28).

Romans 8 said:
We don't own salvation because we prayed a prayer and put our faith in Jesus for ten minutes, or ten years.
One must continue to abide in the Christ or he will cut us off:

Again agreed. . .but that is not the whole story.
The born again do just that because they are kept (in faith and obedience) by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5, Jn 10:28), while those who are not born again are not in Christ.

Romans 8 said:
John 15:6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
These are not works He's speaking about here, it's "anyone who does not remain in me". And this is not a figurative fire here its the fire of hell. You can argue until your face turns blue but there are many verses in the bible which one cannot explain away without compromising their integrity.
Have fun winning your debate, for those that are unsure of how salvation works, I hope you understand that we CAN lose our way and
we must keep our faith until Jesus returns, or we die in 11 Pe 1:5, Jn 10:28) flesh. God bless.

Again agreed. . .but that is not the whole story.
The born again are kept (in faith and obedience) by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5, Jn 10:28), and
it is those of counterfeit faith who are not born again that fall away.

Romans 8 · Mar 23, 2025

Clare73 said:
I understand the actual topic to be:

"OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell."

Agreed. . .but that is not the whole story, and I have presented the rest of the story; i.e., we don't keep ourselves, we are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5, Jn 10:28).

Again agreed. . .but that is not the whole story.
The born again do just that because they are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5, Jn 10:28), while those who are not born again are not in Christ.

Again agreed. . .but that is not the whole story.
The born again are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5, Jn 10:28), and
it is those of counterfeit faith who are not born again that fall away.

1 Pe 1:5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:5 proves my point. Who's faith are we talking about here, Jesus's faith? No, obviously not. It's our faith that keeps us abiding in Him.

Next:

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Who does Jesus give eternal life? His sheep. And who are His sheep? Those who FOLLOW Him. Not those who followed Him, but those in present tense, whom are in the act of following.

Clare73 · Mar 23, 2025

Romans 8 said:
1 Pe 1:5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:5 proves my point. Who's faith are we talking about here, Jesus's faith? No, obviously not. It's our faith that keeps us abiding in Him.

guarded (phroureo) = to keep by guarding; a military term

Romans 8 said:
Next: John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Who does Jesus give eternal life? His sheep. And who are His sheep? Those who FOLLOW Him. Not those who followed Him, but
those in present tense, whom are in the act of following.

That would be those who are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5) and do not fall away.

Romans 8 · Mar 23, 2025

Clare73 said:
guarded (phroureo) = to keep by guarding; a military term

That would be those who are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5) and do not fall away.

Of course the power of God, keeps us, that's why Jesus tells us that his yoke is easy, and His burden is light. All we need do is abide in Him.

You can lead a horse to water Clare butchoo can't make em' drink. Nothing stopping you from admitting you were in error except your pride. You seem quite intelligent and I do believe I will see you arguing my point here in the future.

God Bless you sister!

Ivan Hlavanda · Mar 23, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
Oh hey Ivan, did you give up on the last thread?

After you saying 'The wrath of God is upon whoever Jesus says it’s upon because He paid the price' there is not much point of a debate. I gave plenty Biblical evidence that shows Christ died and redeemed only His elect, that salvation is of God alone, and that salvation cannot be lost. Your wrong inerpretation of 'I will lose none my Father gave me' does not prove otherwise.

BNR32FAN said:
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There is nothing in Ephesians 5 that says we can lose salvation.

In Ephesians 5, Paul discusses what behavior is and is not a worthy imitation (like children imitating their parents. If you of God, then yoy imitate God, if of satan, then you imitate satan) of God and befitting of God’s children. “For at one time you were darkness,” he says, “but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light” verse 8.

Christians must imitate God in such a way that follows His example. Beloved children do not presume to become their parents; however, children may be seen imitating the behaviors and actions of their parents.

To properly imitate God, we must first be His children. “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God” John 1:12-13. If we receive Christ and believe in His name, we become God’s beloved children.

The verses you poster are not about salvation, but about those who are in Christ, only they can imitate God, because they are His children and so they do what their Father does.

Ivan Hlavanda · Mar 23, 2025

Romans 8 said:
Sure, continue with your straw man argument.

I said that Christ sacrifice was perfect, and salvation is by grace alone by Christ alone, but that is wrong according to you. I'll leave you to God to judge.

Ivan Hlavanda · Mar 23, 2025

Hoping2 said:
You make it sound like there is sin "in Christ".
Is that right ?
If so, I cannot agree.

Who said that there is sin in Christ?

No true believer lives in a sinless perfection. Neither did Abraham, Moses, David, Peter etc.

But if we are truly saved, we have the Holy Spirit in us, a helper, to turn away from our sin and repent.

Ivan Hlavanda · Mar 23, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
Based on 2 Timothy 2:12. Unless you think Paul and Timothy weren’t born again.

I already explained this one to you.

To understand the verse you mention, we must look at the context. Starting from verse 11.
Paul in verse 11 acknowledges that, because we have died together with Christ, we will live together with Him. We will enjoy life everlasting with Christ. Paul states this as fact. This is not merely an “if” but a “since.” It is a fact that we have died together , and it is a certainty that in the future we will live together with Christ.

Next, Paul encourages believers that, since we are enduring, then we will reign together with Him and each other. As John explained it in Revelation, believers overcome through Christ who has Himself overcome.

2 Timothy 2:12b changes the tense of the (protasis) action from present to future, rendering the first part of the couplet, “if we deny in the future.” If there is such a denial, then He will also deny us. Jesus used similar terminology when He explained that, if people denied Him before men, He would deny them before the Father. It is important to note that Jesus was talking to His twelve disciples. He explains that the Spirit would be speaking through them, and He warns them of the need to be faithful in confessing Him before men and not denying Him—He is challenging them to be faithful messengers for Him. There was reward for confessing Him before men, and consequences for denying Him before men. (Read Matthew 10).

When Paul says that Jesus will deny us, he is not talking about loss of salvation or change in positional standing before God. Much like Jesus warned His twelve disciples, Paul reminds Timothy that there are consequences to unfaithfulness in ministry. Paul had explained earlier in this context the importance of engaging like a good soldier, an athlete competing according to the rules, and a hard-working farmer

SavedByGrace3 · Mar 23, 2025

Those who are genuine (and have been from the start) remain. Those who leave are not and never were. Pretty simple.

1 John 2:19 KJV
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Maori Aussie · Mar 23, 2025

B Griffin said:
This use of Romans 6:1-2 is curious to me.

I have a friend who has a Degree in Theology. I was struggling with the parable of the Good Samaritan as a logical answer to "Who is my neighbour". My friend said I was waay overthinking it. That the message of Jesus was delivered to peasants on the land, most of whom could not read nor write, let alone have mastered the nuances (dot or tittle) of Greek. My eyes were opened.

SavedByGrace3 · Mar 23, 2025

Maori Aussie said:
I have a friend who has a Degree in Theology. I was struggling with the parable of the Good Samaritan as a logical answer to "Who is my neighbour". My friend said I was waay overthinking it. That the message of Jesus was delivered to peasants on the land, most of whom could not read nor write, let alone have mastered the nuances (dot or tittle) of Greek. My eyes were opened.

I constantly remind people of this. If first-century Christians heard the contents of the epistles or even the scripture, it was because someone read them aloud, usually in a congregational setting on the Lord's Day. Very few people had access to the scripture that we have. Today, if you listen to some, you must be a Bible scholar to get and stay saved. People today way overthink these things. It is much simpler than they say. This is especially true for gentile believers.

Paul wrote:

Acts 15:28-29 KJV
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Today, the modern Judaizers will damn you for just about anything.

Clare73 · Mar 23, 2025

Romans 8 said:
Of course the power of God, keeps us, that's why Jesus tells us that his yoke is easy, and His burden is light. All we need do is abide in Him.

You can lead a horse to water Clare butchoo can't make em' drink. Nothing stopping you from admitting you were in error except your pride.

Actually, there is. . .I need a Biblical demonstration by you of my error.

When you present one without Biblical error, this horsey will drink.

Another poster on CF has done so, and this horsey did drink.

Romans 8 said:
You seem quite intelligent and I do believe I will see you arguing my point here in the future.

Hmmm. . .intelligent. . .and arguing against you. . .hmmm.

Romans 8 said:
God Bless you sister!

God love you, brother!

BNR32FAN · Mar 23, 2025

Ivan Hlavanda said:
After you saying 'The wrath of God is upon whoever Jesus says it’s upon because He paid the price' there is not much point of a debate. I gave plenty Biblical evidence that shows Christ died and redeemed only His elect, that salvation is of God alone, and that salvation cannot be lost. Your wrong inerpretation of 'I will lose none my Father gave me' does not prove otherwise.

There is nothing in Ephesians 5 that says we can lose salvation.

In Ephesians 5, Paul discusses what behavior is and is not a worthy imitation (like children imitating their parents. If you of God, then yoy imitate God, if of satan, then you imitate satan) of God and befitting of God’s children. “For at one time you were darkness,” he says, “but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light” verse 8.

Christians must imitate God in such a way that follows His example. Beloved children do not presume to become their parents; however, children may be seen imitating the behaviors and actions of their parents.

To properly imitate God, we must first be His children. “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God” John 1:12-13. If we receive Christ and believe in His name, we become God’s beloved children.

The verses you poster are not about salvation, but about those who are in Christ, only they can imitate God, because they are His children and so they do what their Father does.

No you specifically said that those who are sealed with the Holy Spirit cannot lose their inheritance and in Ephesians 5 Paul specifically stated that greed and immorality must not be named among YOU referring to those who he just said were sealed with the Holy Spirit just 5 sentences ago. The he says FOR, in other words BECAUSE this you know for certain that no impure or immoral person has an inheritance in the kingdom of God. So Paul said immorality must not be named among you because you know with certainty that no immoral person has an inheritance in the kingdom of God. Their being sealed with the Holy Spirit doesn’t guarantee their inheritance, that’s exactly what Paul said in that passage.

Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)

Active Member

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)

Blood-bought

He’s a Way of life

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency