Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

[ozso]

When I became a born again Christian over 5 years ago, I loved coming to this forum to learn about the Bible. The topic of OSAS was the topic which significantly held my interest. I went back and forth on the issue, and I really wanted to believe OSAS is true, for peace of mind. Thing is, I could never get peace in letting this doctrine settle,and I believe it's for this reason: OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell. Without posting every verse in the Bible which supports my belief, I will post this one: Matthew 24:13 says: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
If you believe in the doctrine of OSAS, I beg you to reconsider. By negating OSAS you do not automatically get pigeonholed as one who subscribes to "Lordship Salvation", as this is also a false doctrine. However, you will see that maintaining your relationship (abiding in Christ) is necessary for Christians in order to finish the race. You CAN be born again, yet end up in hell because of your apostasy. Do not be fooled nor lazy about your relationship with God. While it's not a religion, it is a relationship, albeit your most important one and it's so easy to drop the ball in this Laodecian church age we find ourselves. Renew your relationship with God every morning and read His Word everyday. I want all of us to make it and not take our relationship with Him for granted. That means NO deliberate sin, as continual deliberate sinning puts Jesus back on the cross and there is no sacrifice left for us...

Hebrews 10:26-27 says, For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Of course we aren't perfect and the Bible tells us that if we say we don't sin, we are liars. However, there's a difference between slipping up, and repenting, and living in sin and, "Oops, Jesus forgive me, Oops, I did it again Jesus, Oops, oops, oops",all in the span of a day or a few days or weeks.

There's a difference between a Christian and a disciple and Jesus want us to be the latter. God bless brothers and sisters, finish the race and will see you in heaven soon!

There's more to salvation than just having a ticket to heaven. It means being saved from the bondage of sin and the ability to reach new heights of sanctification through the Holy Spirit. In my opinion if one doesn't proactively want to grow in love towards God, there's not much point in them being a Christian. Salvation is a daily experience of spiritual growth rather than just a one time event.

If one is asked what makes you a Christian, the answer should be something like; "I want to be and do what God wants, I want to strive towards being more like Jesus". Rather than; "well I said a little prayer once many years ago".

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The only real objection against OSAS is not salvation... it is sin.
The objection, of course, is that OSAS could be interpreted as a "license to sin."
Yet, of all the OSAS proponents I have encountered, I have never heard anyone state they believe this. Nobody says, "Well, I believe in OSAS so I can 'live like hell' and still feel secure in my eternal destiny." That is the assumption of the teaching's detractors. It is a common debate tactic to restate an argument out of context and then refute it(straw man). Myself, I lean toward OSAS, but not in the context of sin but in punishment for sin. All sin must and will be dealt with as a matter of justice. The point is not all sin results in spiritual death. There is sin not unto spiritual death. These sins reap corruption of the flesh and, to the extreme, physical death. Paul speaks of turning such a believer over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that their spirit be saved on the day of the Lord.

The counter to OSAS is TLLF - "Twice Lost, Lost Forever." This is commonly heard when quoting Heb 10 as proof against OSAS.

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Who has not sinned since they were saved? I have been a believer for 54 years. I would be ashamed and embarrassed to list the many manifold ways I have "missed the mark." The TLLF proponents insist that if you have ever sinned even once since you were saved, then you are lost forever. No matter how hard you repent, there will never again be a sacrifice for your sins, and your damnation is permanent. It is done. Hense Twice Lost Lost Forever. That is cringeworthy. This teaching does not work and contradicts many verses about repenting and forgiveness. This verse does not say what they want it to say, and if it did, it would lead to their own condemnation and assess the Gospel to be an utter failure with NOBODY saved ever.

Let's start a list of everyone who has never "sinned willfully since they came to the knowledge of the truth":
1.
2.
3.

Any takers?

 

[Hoping2]

When I became a born again Christian over 5 years ago, I loved coming to this forum to learn about the Bible. The topic of OSAS was the topic which significantly held my interest. I went back and forth on the issue, and I really wanted to believe OSAS is true, for peace of mind. Thing is, I could never get peace in letting this doctrine settle,and I believe it's for this reason: OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell. Without posting every verse in the Bible which supports my belief, I will post this one: Matthew 24:13 says: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
If you believe in the doctrine of OSAS, I beg you to reconsider. By negating OSAS you do not automatically get pigeonholed as one who subscribes to "Lordship Salvation", as this is also a false doctrine. However, you will see that maintaining your relationship (abiding in Christ) is necessary for Christians in order to finish the race. You CAN be born again, yet end up in hell because of your apostasy. Do not be fooled nor lazy about your relationship with God. While it's not a religion, it is a relationship, albeit your most important one and it's so easy to drop the ball in this Laodecian church age we find ourselves. Renew your relationship with God every morning and read His Word everyday. I want all of us to make it and not take our relationship with Him for granted. That means NO deliberate sin, as continual deliberate sinning puts Jesus back on the cross and there is no sacrifice left for us...

Hebrews 10:26-27 says, For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Of course we aren't perfect and the Bible tells us that if we say we don't sin, we are liars. However, there's a difference between slipping up, and repenting, and living in sin and, "Oops, Jesus forgive me, Oops, I did it again Jesus, Oops, oops, oops",all in the span of a day or a few days or weeks.

There's a difference between a Christian and a disciple and Jesus want us to be the latter. God bless brothers and sisters, finish the race and will see you in heaven soon!

I feel that one's claim to having already been saved is a kind of misnomer.
My own salvation won't be assured until I am raised from the dead, to eternal life.
Jesus once said..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:21-23)
What happened to their previously claimed salvation ?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I feel that one's claim to having already been saved is a kind of misnomer.
My own salvation won't be assured until I am raised from the dead, to eternal life.
Jesus once said..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:21-23)
What happened to their previously claimed salvation ?

It sounds like they claim to have been saved but are lying. Jesus said He NEVER knew them.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

The only real objection against OSAS is not salvation... it is sin.
The objection, of course, is that OSAS could be interpreted as a "license to sin."
Yet, of all the OSAS proponents I have encountered, I have never heard anyone state they believe this. Nobody says, "Well, I believe in OSAS so I can 'live like hell' and still feel secure in my eternal destiny." That is the assumption of the teaching's detractors. It is a common debate tactic to restate an argument out of context and then refute it(straw man).

The flesh sees grace/forgiveness as an opportunity for sin. That is why the two retorts are offered in Romans 6...

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? (Ro 6:1)​

and,

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? (Ro 6:15)​

Paul addressed both these retorts by saying the opposite is true, indicating that being raised from the dead and having received new life in Christ, our affections for sin have been replaced with love for God and for the things of God. In the first reply he focuses on our new lives and tells us to arm ourselves with this new reality - we are alive to God and dead to sin, so we should arm ourselves with this midset and present ourselves to God as such. In the second reply, He focuses on our freedom from sin and our slavery to God and tells us to present ourselves to God as such.

When we get to Galatians, we see Paul taking six chapters to warn arbout the nature and pitfals of legalistic Christian living and one verse to caution against misusing our liberty...

"For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh" (Ga 5:13).​

​

Why is this? I suppose it is because our human natures teache us we cannot trust ourselves to live free of sin without the restraints of law to keep us in line. But, of course, the answer is not submission to the law. It is submission to the Spirit...

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (Ga 5:16–18)​

​

So, this topic is not so much about eternal security, but is more about what makes us right with God.

Myself, I lean toward OSAS, but not in the context of sin but in punishment for sin. All sin must and will be dealt with as a matter of justice. The point is not all sin results in spiritual death. There is sin not unto spiritual death. These sins reap corruption of the flesh and, to the extreme, physical death. Paul speaks of turning such a believer over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that their spirit be saved on the day of the Lord.

The counter to OSAS is TLLF - "Twice Lost, Lost Forever." This is commonly heard when quoting Heb 10 as proof against OSAS.

Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Who has not sinned since they were saved? I have been a believer for 54 years. I would be ashamed and embarrassed to list the many manifold ways I have "missed the mark." The TLLF proponents insist that if you have ever sinned even once since you were saved, then you are lost forever. No matter how hard you repent, there will never again be a sacrifice for your sins, and your damnation is permanent. It is done. Hense Twice Lost Lost Forever. That is cringeworthy. This teaching does not work and contradicts many verses about repenting and forgiveness. This verse does not say what they want it to say, and if it did, it would lead to their own condemnation and assess the Gospel to be an utter failure with NOBODY saved ever.

Let's start a list of everyone who has never "sinned willfully since they came to the knowledge of the truth":
1.
2.
3.

Any takers?

 

[Clare73]

Clare, the Bible is full of verses that one can use as evidence to "prove", OSAS or to "prove" finishing the race and abiding in Christ

But it's not either/or, it's both/and. . .only those who finish the race are truly saved.

And those who finish the race did so only because they were enabled by the Holy Spirit whom they received in the new birth.

albeit, neither belief should matter if one abides in Christ. However, I firmly believe that one of these beliefs WILL lead many to hell.

The solution to that notion is correct teaching, the solution is not denying Biblical doctrine.

 

[Hoping2]

It sounds like they claim to have been saved but are lying. Jesus said He NEVER knew them.

Either lying, or misinformed.
If one teaches a man who steals for a living that he is "saved", he will not stop stealing.
The real lie is that continuing adulterers, thieves, liars, and murderers, are saved.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Either lying, or misinformed.
If one teaches a man who steals for a living that he is "saved", he will not stop stealing.
The real lie is that continuing adulterers, thieves, liars, and murderers, are saved.

The point is they were never lost after being saved... they were never saved to start with. He NEVER knew them.

 

[Maori Aussie]

Romans 6:1-2 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace?
Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?

 

[Maori Aussie]

Heb 10:26 If we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And 2 Tim 2:12 proves OSAS , PERIOD >

# 1 IF // EI , is a CONJUNCATION

# 2 WE SUFFER // HYMBASIEU

# 3 WE SHALL // SYMBASILEUO , Is in the Greek FTIURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , in the INDICIATIVE MOOD , in te INDICATIVE

MOOD , in the PLURAL

# 4 ALSO // KAI is a CONJUNCATION

# 5 REIGN WITH // SYMBASIEUO , in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , Christ make that happen , in the INDICATIVE

MOOD , meaning you better believe it

# 6 HIM // was added to the Greek Text

# 7 , IF // EI , a CONJUNCATION

# 8 WE DENY // ARNEOMAI is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , in the MIDDLE ot PASSIVE TENSE , can also mean to Reject ,

to refuse , disregard or to disown ,

# 9 HE ALSO DENY // KAKEINEINOS us is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE in the INDICATIVE TENSE , meaning you better believe

it , in the SINGULAR .

# 10 WILL DENY // ARNEOMAI , in the Greek FUTIRE TENSE , in the IDICATIVE MOOD , in the SIGNULAR

# 11 US // HEMAS , PERSONAL POSSESSEIVE PRONOUN , ACCIUSATIVE CASE , in the PLURAL

And if we are DISBELIEVERS that One ( meaning Christ ) Faithful , He remains faithful , as He is NOT able to CONTRADICT

You just posted the usage and definition of the Greek words used in 2 Timothy 2:12 then completely ignored them and went to verse 13 and other verses. You didn’t actually explain anything about how Jesus denying Paul and Timothy doesn’t equate to a loss of salvation.

And if we are DISBELIEVERS that One ( meaning Christ ) Faithful , He remains faithful , as He is NOT able to CONTRADICT

He’s not able to contradict what? Paul just quoted Jesus from Matthew 10:32-33.

““Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭32‬-‭33‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This is what Paul is saying that Jesus can’t contradict, the verse he just quoted right before this statement.

But in 1 Cor 3:12 says The work of each will become visible for the DAY will make it

PLAIN ( the BEMA SEAT JUDGMENT ) being revealed by FIRE ( means Judgment ) will test the WORK of each one ,

of what sort it is ,

1 Cor 3:14 says , IF the work of anyone which he build up remain , he will receive a REWARD .

Read 1 Cor 3:15

Why did you start at verse 12? Is it because verse 10 explains who Paul is actually referring to?

“According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is specifically about those who are building on the foundation of Christ. It has nothing to do with people who are DENYING CHRIST. Are you trying to say that people who are denying Christ are building on His foundation? I specifically explained this in my video on 2 Timothy 2:12 because Bob Wilkin made this same mistake. Are unbelievers who are denying Christ building on His foundation? Building on the foundation of Christ according to what Paul was describing in 1 Corinthians 3 is referring to working in the church. That’s why he said this right after saying that both he and Apollos were building on the foundation of Christ in different ways but both for the same goal. Paul planted and Apollos watered but it was God who caused the growth. Both he who plants and he who waters are one but each will receive his own reward. This has nothing to do with unbelievers who are denying Christ, it’s about those who are working in the church. It has nothing to do with salvation or sin. It’s about receiving rewards in heaven for doing good deeds that either prove to be beneficial or not beneficial to the church.

Then read 1 Cor 5:1-5 !!

VERSE 1 Says his son and mother are having f0rnication !

Verse 2 no one will judge them !!

verse 3 and 4 Paul was given to judge that son !!

verse 5 Paul DELIEVERS that person to SATAN for the DEATH Of the FLESH in order THAT THE SPIRIT MAYBE SAVED

Why does Paul say that the man’s spirit MAY be saved? Why doesn’t Paul say that the man’s spirit WILL be saved?

in 2 Thess 2:1 His COMING // PAROUSIA for the BODY OF CHRIST /

And in verse 3 , No one should deceive YOU , in NOT // is a DISJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NENGATIVE , means NEVERRRRRRRRRR

ever , one way , because EXCEPT the DEPARTURE // APOSTASIA ( meaning because will be coming for the BODY OF CHRIST

And Christ COMING // PAROUSIA and 2 Thess 2:1 ,,

ALSO his coming in 1 Thess 4:17 CAUGHT AWAY // HARPAZO , and in Gal 1:4 called RESCUE // EXAAIREO

And did miss another one in 1 Thess 3:13 the word COMING //PAROUSIA /

And you completely lost me here because I have no idea what 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 has to do with any of this. It’s a prophetic passage about the coming of the antichrist. It has nothing to do with the guy who was speaking with his step mother in 1 Corinthians 5.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Romans 6:1-2 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace?
Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?

Amen and verse 16

“Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Heb 10:26 If we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

No I disagree with this because what Paul is talking about here is that there are no more sin offerings under the Mosaic covenant that will cover our sins. That’s what he was explaining in the chapter, how the old covenant sin offerings are obsolete.

 

[Maori Aussie]

Amen and verse 16

“Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments”.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Heb 10:26 If we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

So.... twice lost, lost forever?

 

[Maori Aussie]

So.... twice lost, lost forever?

Well, Jesus told Christians are told to forgive seventy times seven times.... Matt 18:21-2

 

[Hoping2]

The point is they were never lost after being saved... they were never saved to start with. He NEVER knew them.

I agree.

 

[Romans 8]

Mocking God'a word much?

Romans 8 and yet you do not even understand the chapter. Those who are in Christ will never be separated from the love of God.

We are placed into Christ, and therefore we become heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ, as we read in Romans 8. This is the great doctrine of adoption; and we looked at it in some detail last time.

“The Father loves the Son,” John 3:35. And He loves those who are in the Son because they are one with the Son. This is the marvelous reality of salvation. “Behold, what manner of love the Father has, that He has made us” – 1 John 3:1 – “children of God.” He loves us enough not only to do the negative, save us from our sins, but do the positive: adopt us into His own family, into His one eternal Son, to share His full inheritance.

God’s astounding love is the cause, the motive, the drive behind our adoption. He loves the Son, He places us in the Son, and He loves us the way He loves the Son. We see that laid out so magnificently in the seventeenth chapter of John, where our Lord prays and binds those for whom He prays, all believers together with Himself and with the Father, in this bond of love. We are loved by the Father because Christ is loved. We are blessed by the Father because Christ is blessed. We inherit all that Christ inherits because we are in Christ.

This is how we are to understand our adoption. We have been placed into His true Son, and therefore are heirs of everything God possesses. This is adoption. God graciously places justified, regenerated, sanctified believers into His own family by placing into union with His beloved Son, so that in Him they become sons of God.

When you were justified, when you were converted, when you were saved, you were sealed with the Spirit of promise. The Spirit of promise took up residence in your heart; that is what that verse is saying. The Spirit was given to you as a pledge of our inheritance, which is coming later at the redemption of our bodies when we enter into the presence of the Lord.

Ivan,

It's not sarcasm. The point is that trusting in Jesus to save us is not something that puts us in danger of Him sending us to hell.

If you had ever held my position on eternal security, you wouldn't have abandoned it.

This is just a caricature that you have adopted to pidgeon-hole people with.

It is clear that the flesh is driving your understanding because the flesh is the only part of us that sees liberty as an opportunity to sin... which you have expertly described. It is a terrible mistake to refuse to stand fast in liberty for fear of misusing it.

This is really disturbing, not just because it is factually incorrect, but mainly because you are calling God a demon. I know God personally and intimately. And I have been listening to Him and learning from Him for at least 4 decades more than your brief relationship with Him.

You really have no idea what you're saying.

If you cannot handle debate, why did you come here? I can't converse with a tattle tail. Find another thread I'm done conversing with you.

 

[Romans 8]

"OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell."

You don't fellowship with many Christians who are confident about their eternal security much, do you? If you did, you would recognize that our JOY and HOPE in Jesus are bearing much fruit for the Kingdom Of God - fruit that remains - just like Jesus promised.

Romans 8 fan, huh? Me, too. Suggestion... drop the endless theological hand-wringing inspired by those ever abundant "biblical scholars" and just ask yourself if Romans 8:16 is true for you?

Well?

You can search the Scriptures far and wide for eternal life but will remain repeatedly vexed if you cannot hear His voice telling you that you are His child. I know! That is Jesus' whole point. He is a Person, ergo... personal relationship required.

If you do hear His voice, relax, and have some peace, man. And spread that JOY I'm talking about.

Win the struggle by laying aside whatever Scriptures are upsetting you, and seriously weigh them against the plethora of covenant promises found in the following link. ASK the Holy Spirit DIRECTLY if they apply to you, in faith that He will, and He will assuredly convince you - in His time and in His way.

If Scriptures do not seem to harmonize in our minds, we trust that they do in His Mind. We do not, nor cannot, wait till we understand all before we choose to walk in victory. Revelation will come in proportion to our experiences walking with Him and hearing Him - and SERVING Him. Regularly take our noses out of the Book and be DOERS.

Can you hear the voice of the Author of Scripture speaking to your spirit - through His Word and through His Creation?

When all of the Scriptures are weighed, we who are saved are saved for one reason and one reason only - because God has the last Word:

Romans 9:15 NIV

"For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

133 New Testament Eternal Security Verses - from the Covenant Keeper Himself:

Eternal Security Scriptures

Below is a list of every scripture guaranteeing the eternal security of the believer. This list is a work-in-progress. Feel free to submit scriptures we’ve missed. – Old Testament (n = 9) &#8…

escapetoreality.org

God is sovereign. We are saved by His grace, we are sustained by His grace. Mic drop...

Jesus came to set the captives free! Re-read Romans 8 whenever you need reminding of who GOD says you are!

Revelation 3:5 states, "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels."

What? You mean? Um? Oh! Our names CAN be blotted out? Wow! Revelation! We must overcome? Until when? The end of the race (our lives) I presume? Yes! I can't prove anything to you people but I can plant a seed. Never take your salvation for granted. Anyone can apostle. Stay on the narrow path and you will overcome. God bless.

 

[Romans 8]

No that’s just a false accusation conjured up by your own imagination. “If we deny Him, He will deny us” Those are Paul’s words. “Anyone who denies Me before men I will deny before My Father in heaven”. Those are Christ’s words. So it’s not that Christ hasn’t done enough, it’s that He specifically said what He will do to those who turn away from Him and Paul said that both he and Timothy were capable of denying Christ. So in reality it’s just what Jesus and Paul taught. Truth remains truth regardless of whether we like it, whether we believe it, or whether we admit it.

Absolutely! We often deny Jesus through idols. Our denying could be deliberate, but also we could become deceived through false teachers, false teachings, love of the world, back sliding, discontent, etc, but it's the us who deny Jesus first.