Once saved always saved. False?

FreeGrace2 said:

From 1 Cor 15, Paul was referring to the rapture when Jesus returns to earth at the 2nd Advent. All believers alive on earth at that time will certainly be changed in the twinkling of an eye, as Paul said..

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That is correct.
Now, please tell me...
WHO does the Bible say are the Last Saints?
The ones who are living on earth when they are "changed"?


Then are called the "wise virgins" in Matthew 25:1-13...
They are taken to the "marriage" in the "final harvest"
just before the "Door was Shut".


You see, this is called "Harmony of Scripture"... when all passages agree.
You should try it sometime.


Jim

Marc Perry said:

I have no interest in reading your website and I pretty much gave up on this post after that.

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As it was foretold:


Dan 12:8-10
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel:
for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be
purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:
and none of the wicked shall understand;
but the wise shall understand.


The Last Saints on earth are called the "wise virgins" [Mat 25:1-13]


.

Marc Perry said:

I am so sorry. I was not talking to you at all. I meant to talk to 5. I was just quickly flipping through the posts and added yours instead.

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It happens. No worries.

My point to him was that he was picking and choosing certain three words he liked from scripture, and ignoring all the rest.

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And your point is well taken!!

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
I am pointing out to 5kingdoms that his view cannot be proven from Scripture

5thKingdom said:

You want me to PROVE Daniel 12:8-10... that makes sense.

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No, I want you to prove that the Bible specifically speaks about 5 kingdoms.

And Dan 12:8-10 doesn't even mention the word "kingdom". So, no, that's not a passage that will prove your claim.

You have specifically named "kingdoms". But the Bible didn't. This isn't that hard to figure out.

5thKingdom said:

First, I must tell you that your "theory" about the 1290 and 1335 days cannot possibly be correct because that "theory" (which did not originate with you) was developed during a time when the BIBLE PROMISES the Truth about the Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation/Daniel's Fourth Beast would remain "closed-up" and "sealed"to all saints.

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What's "theory" about 3.5 years? What do you think these numbers days refer to?

The Bible speaks of the Great Tribulation Kingdom and/or Revelation Beast
as being the "night" when no man can work. The Bible shows this period as
four (4) "watches of the night"... which are "shortened" for the sake of the elect
[Mat 24:22] making the duration of the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast a period
shown as 3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and 3.5 "years" and 3.5 "watches of the night".

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I will say one thing about your fantasies. They are creative. What is clear from Scripture is that the Beast (antichrist) will rule for 3.5 years.

Rev 13:5 - The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.

Unlike yourself, when I quote a verse, it actually SAYS what I claim.

5thKingdom said:

That is correct.
Now, please tell me...
WHO does the Bible say are the Last Saints?

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Please cite a specific verse.

The ones who are living on earth when they are "changed"?

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I need to see the context first.

Then are called the "wise virgins" in Matthew 25:1-13...
They are taken to the "marriage" in the "final harvest"
just before the "Door was Shut".

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Just give me a verse to check out.

You see, this is called "Harmony of Scripture"... when all passages agree.
You should try it sometime.

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None of my views are contradicted by any Scripture, unlike yours.

FreeGrace2 said:

I never said He did. I was revealing the conclusion of what YOU said. If what YOU said were true, then Jesus DID teach heresy.

Maybe you don't understand what your claim means.

From your post #216:
Zimmer36 said: ↑
"Ive researched lately and many are coming out saying OSAS is an end times heresy that will lead many to fall away."

And you responded to Zimmer:
"Yes, it is a heresy.

It has its origins from the message that Satan told Eve in the garden."

So, again, IF IF IF your claims were true, then Jesus DID teach heresy.

And I've proven that Jesus taught eternal security, from the MOMENT a person believes in Christ for salvation and RECEIVES eternal life.


Your statement is. The Bible teaches eternal security.


Jesus taught eternal security, which I've proven from very clear Scripture.

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Jesus taught us to remain in Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB

JLB777 said:

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.

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No, He didn't. I just wish you understood what that really means.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.

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Sadly, you refuse to understand the difference between "abiding" which in John 15 the obvious point is about bearing fruit, and being "IN Him", which is obviously about the permanent sealing with the Holy Spirit which guarantees an inheritance for the sealed believer for the day of redemption, in Eph 1:13,14.

It's quite telling that you have never even bothered to explain Eph 1:13,14 to prove that my view is wrong. Because you can't.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB

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Right. The apostle John clearly understood the difference between abiding in Him and being in Him.

Those with spiritual discernment understand all this easily. Those without, can't.

JLB777 said:

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

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Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.

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I've noticed that the great majority of Bible proofs that opponents of Eternal Security point to are like this one (above). That is to say, they are represented as instructions (which is what you did; I added the blue for emphasis) when they actually are statements of fact.

As such, they are not refutations of OSAS.

Zimmer36 said:

Im confused about salvation. What is the truth about salvation. What do we do?

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As a Christian you will find these answers in his Word plain and simple. That's how you'll find the answers, God's overall plan, etc. We can all state our beliefs, but you need to seek out the answers for yourself. That's what I did years ago when I thought I was on the right path but wasn't.

FreeGrace2 said:

No, He didn't. I just wish you understood what that really means.


Sadly, you refuse to understand the difference between "abiding" which in John 15 the obvious point is about bearing fruit, and being "IN Him", which is obviously about the permanent sealing with the Holy Spirit which guarantees an inheritance for the sealed believer for the day of redemption, in Eph 1:13,14.

It's quite telling that you have never even bothered to explain Eph 1:13,14 to prove that my view is wrong. Because you can't.


Right. The apostle John clearly understood the difference between abiding in Him and being in Him.

Those with spiritual discernment understand all this easily. Those without, can't.

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So you don’t believe Jesus, when He says to remain in Him?


Jesus taught us to remain in Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB

JLB777 said:

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB

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Does Jesus pray for His sheep?

JLB777 said:

So you don’t believe Jesus, when He says to remain in Him?

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The truth is, I not only believe what Jesus said, but I fully understand what He means, unlike yourself.

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.

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Yes, for fellowship.

But you seem to think that we are responsible for our salvation, and that "remaining in Him" is the way a believer STAYS saved.

But that is quite unbiblical, and reveals that YOU YOURSELF don't believe Jesus.

He said those who He gives eternal life shall never perish, in John 10:28. No amount of spinning, twisting, or perverting that verse or the previous verse will help you.

It is biblically clear; those given eternal life, which occurs the MOMENT one is saved, shall never perish.

Zimmer36 said:

So what is true salvation how can someone know they are going to have it?

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True Salvation is belief in Jesus. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life". John 3:16
" This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." John 6:29
"And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son and believeth on Him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40

So how can you you prove that you are saved? By making an open confession of Faith and belief in Jesus. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10
"Hereby, know ye the spirit of God: every Spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God." 1John 4:2

You know you have eternal life by believing in and confessing Jesus, because Jesus and the apostles say you do. So, how do you know if you can lose your salvation after you are saved because of some horrendous sin you might commit or if your salvation is forever? The devil and some people will try to convince you that you are too much of a sinner to be able to keep your salvation and they will try to put you under condemnation for the things you do wrong or sometimes even the things that you do that aren't wrong or sinful but maybe you think they are. The main thing that proves you are saved forever is in the fact that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 Since everybody's a sinner and undeserving of God's glory in heaven, then, if you could lose your salvation by sinning every single person would lose their Salvation right after they get saved. Jesus took your punishment for your sins so you wouldn't have to. Once you believe in and confess Jesus you are forgiven for all your sins. And are reconciled to God. You are clean as a whistle, white as snow. You have "washed your robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb" Revelations 7:14

Hammster said:

Does Jesus pray for His sheep?

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I believe Jesus prays for all people, including His sheep.

Will all be saved?


Here is the scripture I quoted.


Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Do you disagree with the instructions John gave us?




JLB

FreeGrace2 said:

The truth is, I not only believe what Jesus said, but I fully understand what He means, unlike yourself.


Yes, for fellowship.

But you seem to think that we are responsible for our salvation, and that "remaining in Him" is the way a believer STAYS saved.

But that is quite unbiblical, and reveals that YOU YOURSELF don't believe Jesus.

He said those who He gives eternal life shall never perish, in John 10:28. No amount of spinning, twisting, or perverting that verse or the previous verse will help you.

It is biblically clear; those given eternal life, which occurs the MOMENT one is saved, shall never perish.

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Here is the plain words of Jesus Christ.


Jesus taught us to remain in Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



JLB

JLB777 said:

I believe Jesus prays for all people, including His sheep.

Will all be saved?


Here is the scripture I quoted.


Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Do you disagree with the instructions John gave us?




JLB

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Okay, so He prays for His sheep. Does His Father answer His prayers?

JLB777 said:

I believe Jesus prays for all people, including His sheep.

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What verse informs your opinion?

Will all be saved?

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Of course not. Only those who have believed in Him for salvation.

Here’s how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.

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You simply fail to understand what the sealing with the Holy Spirit means, unfortunately.

It means God has placed within EVERY believer, when they believe, the Holy Spirit, as a deposit, a guarantee, for their inheritance as God's possession, for the day of redemption.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

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This is not about how to get or stay saved. Not even close. It's about fellowship.

Do you disagree with the instructions John gave us?

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You have proven that you don't even understand John's instructions.

JLB777 said:

Here is the plain words of Jesus Christ.
Jesus taught us to remain in Him.

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Why don't you accept and believe the plain words of Jesus here?

John 10:28 - I give them (believers) eternal life, and they shall never perish.