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This person does not exist.How does this justify your argument for OSAS?
Your arguments can also be applied to many non-Christians that don't sin because they just want to go out and sin all the time.
Example: Just because an atheist does not sin doesn't make him a Christian either.
If you do not get saved, you will not be going to heaven. How can any Christian not understand that?I'm speechless. Do all OSAS advocates have a different view on being saved?
So if a believer is not saved, is he chop liver? Or shish-kabob if going to hell?
Here's the proposition from God: "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved". Or, "those who behold and believe in the Son may have eternal life". When hearing these propositions, one either believes the proposition, or they do not believe the proposition.
Those who believe the proposition are saved and given eternal life.
The Christian life STARTS with faith in Christ. That's where the relationship begins. That is saving faith; faith in Christ.
I can name a dozen for you, but I don't think that would be a proper use of these forums. You can easily, however, review the belief systems of those churches which teach this POV.Who is talking about "earning" salvation? Can you direct me to that post?
I can name a dozen for you, but I don't think that would be a proper use of these forums.
Here are a dozen that describe the character and behavior of those who are abiding in the Lord. These are not considered "works" for salvation, but response to the dynamic activity of God within an individual.
There is no security for those whose behavior does not reflect the Life of Christ within them.
- Eliminate the mixture. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)
- Beware of Lawlessness (Titus 2:14)
- Walk in the spirit of reconciliation (Colossians 1:21, Hebrews 12:15)
- Daily consecrate your life on the altar. (Romans 12:1)
- Draw your life from the Spirit, not the flesh. (Galatians 5:16, I John 2:15,16)
- Subject every desire to One desire. (1 John 2:17)
- Keep yourselves from idols. (1 John 5:21)
- Endure the discipline of the Father (Hebrews 12:5-11)
- Beware of willful sin. (Hebrews 10:26-31, 6:4-6)
- Keep yourselves in the love of God. (Jude 1:21)
- Make no provision for the flesh (Romans 13:14)
- Love one another (1 John 4:7)
You've switched topics now, I see.
No one can be completely free without sin no matter how righteous. 1 John 3:9 doesn't imply perfection,
It's not I that isn't getting this. When one is born again, we don't lose the old sin nature. But we do get a new spiritual nature. And you've actually made my point. The relationship between birth parent and child cannot be broken. That was my point.
John NEVER said that a believer cannot sin. That would be sinless perfection. And John had already noted in 1 Jn 1:8 that we all continue to sin.
There is no security for those whose behavior does not reflect the Life of Christ within them.
its quite obvious to avoid dealing with the passage you intend to keep on making up strawmen. No one said anything about perfection. All you are doing is ignoring what is being said and being a drive by passage quoter whether the verse applies to the present conversation or not - its just lazy scriptural pontification. I don't know who is reading through all of any of your posts but it certainly isn't me.
You remind me of a few young believers who early in their christian life just start witnessing to unbelievers by throwing tons of scriptures and "spiritual" pontifications at them indiscriminately and often out of context (and in error). All the time they convince themselves they are reaching the lost while in fact they are driving them away by not talking to them but at them.
Some of you have such a weak view of Christ its almost blasphemous. The amazing thing about it is that your above quote just completely defies what the NT teaches COUNTLESS times - that fruit always follows real inward change. The idea that the God of the universe can be within you and it not be reflected in an outward life is completely foreign to what the NT teaches and is just a false doctrine you are making up. The power of God in the presence of the spirit is too powerful to make no outward reflection.
Many have lost their first love. Thank God for young believers who have a white hot love for Jesus and who have not been corrupted by unbiblical theological systems that do not lead one into godliness and holiness.
And what of the ones whose life did reflect the light and love of Christ and now don't? Oh, that's right, they were never saved.
You can't have it both ways.
I am not trying to you just can't follow an analogy very well or don;t understand that analogies are just that - analogies.
According to 1 John (you know that entire book you keep running away from or twisting to escape what it says) if the light comes form a real relationship with Christ it will never go out. You keep looking at people who claimed to have been Christians to determine your beliefs - I will continue to look at all scriptures together
They were created by God. Believers are adopted as sons of God. Huge difference. Your point is moot. They were not regenerated, born again, given eternal life, which is irrevocable.What you don't seem to understand is, angels who are sons of God has been cast into hell.
Irrelevant.Lucifer who is now Satan, is a son of God and he also will be cast into hell with all his angels.
LOL So much for the discernment to distinguish the difference.So much for your fellowship and relationship "theory".
They were created by God. Believers are adopted as sons of God. Huge difference. Your point is moot. They were not regenerated, born again, given eternal life, which is irrevocable.
Irrelevant.
LOL So much for the discernment to distinguish the difference.
What verse says that God will revoke eternal life? Are there any? Of course there aren't.
If eternal life is revocable, then it isn't eternal. That would make the Bible contradicted and lying to us.
I didn't say that we weren't adopted.No I am accurate here,
"...us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself...: (Ephesians 1:5)
I disagree with your opinion.You twist scripture when it doesnt fit your view.
Except there are no such verses, as some think. Eternal life is a gift of God, so says Paul in Rom 6:23. The VERY NEXT TIME he mentioned the gifts of God was in 11:29 where he said that God's gifts are irrevocable. That is the ONE scripture that brings down the FALSE DOCTRINE of loss of salvation. just as David's ONE smooth stone brought down the very offensive giant.Sometimes it only takes one scripture to bring down a huge false giant of OSAS as David only needed one smooth stone to bring down Goliath.
No, it only means there was no fellowship. That is what had "died". The relationship continued. He was still a son, even while in riotous living and sitting in the pig pens. That NEVER changed.and dead and lost will obviously mean they have no fellowship either .
Given the level of your misunderstanding of my posts, such insults have no effect on me.I did, but since you don't understand what cursed means, it kind hard to have an intelligent conversation.
What verse tells us that any believer is cursed? None do, of course. So your theory is dead on arrival.Example of Cursed -
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
I never said that cursed people go to heaven. I have proven that all believers have peace with God and there is NO condemnation.Now it's up to you to show from the scriptures, that cursed people continue to be saved and go to heaven.
I've already explained this and you've already rejected it. There is nothing more to discuss. And my view hasn't been refuted; only disagreed with.Those who repent and are saved, but then turn back to practicing the works of the flesh, are warned they will not inheriting the kingdom of God.
Once again, been there, done that. And you're rejected it without any refutation.19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
Now it's up to you to prove from the scriptures where Jesus used this phrase
"inherit the kingdom" to mean rewards.
JLB
Please provide support for this claim that Scripture distinguishes between belief and faith. I don't believe claims that have no support from Scripture.You can nit-pick this to death and insist upon a certain preferred meaning, but Scripture often distinguishes between belief and faith, so it's obvious that the two, as used in the Bible, are not automatically synonyms for each other.
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