Once saved always saved (Dangerous)?

[mesue]

Going to church does not make one saved.
Calling oneself a Christian does not make one saved.
However, I do believe that once saved always saved.
I have posted this before, and no doubt, I'll post it again.
I wrote this as an email to a friend of mine that believes there is a sin unto death, meaning that once you're saved and you commit that sin you lose your salvation.
I hope this is helpful:



Some things for you to consider and to know why I know that I will never lose my salvation.



Jesus promised that I cannot lose my salvation:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37)

(note Jesus didn’t say “Except for that sin unto death”)



My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)

(note Jesus didn’t say “Except for that sin unto death”)



Further, that I cannot do anything to lose my salvation because:

Salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works. It is a gift from God. No man can lose his salvation on his own, because no man earned his salvation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)



If I had to do anything to earn or keep my salvation, I would easily lose it.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)

Yet 2 Timothy assures us it is Jesus Christ who keeps us, not we ourselves.

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

(2 Timothy 1:12)



Galatians 2:21 states clearly that if we could become righteous by anything we do, then Jesus Christ’s death was in vein.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

(Galatians 2:21)



God won’t cast me out, no man can cause me to lose my salvation, I cannot lose it myself and there is nothing else to make me lose my salvation



For I am persuaded, that neither

death, - you cannot lose it when you die

nor life, - you cannot lose it while you’re alive

nor angels, - cannot take it away from you

nor principalities, - the government can’t take it from you.

nor powers, - the devil cannot cause you to lose it.

nor things present, - nothing happening right now

nor things to come, - nothing happening in the future.

Nor height, - nothing above you.

nor depth, - nothing below you.

nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)



Does this mean I can go on and knowingly sin? Absolutely not!

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (Romans 6:15)



But how I serve the Lord while here on earth will be judged.

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1Corinthians 3:13-15)

 

[theseed]

Let's not get eternal security mixed up with the sinner's prayer too much. I know that in some places (probably even Baptist churches) they have a standard kind of prayer that they use with people who are being saved. The standard prayer is ok and usually contains the wording that fits with the New Testament teaching on salvation... like 1. I'm a sinner, 2. Jesus died for me, 3. I accept His death as payment on my behalf (for my sins), 4. I believe that He was the Son of God, died, was buried and rose again (actually this would go between 1 and 2). etc.

Salvation comes from the belief in these things (in the heart), but does not end at this point. Eternal security is a biblical doctrine that is easy to show from Scripture. The thing that isn't so easy to see is this doctrine in the lives of others. What we need to remember is that we all have different gifts, different levels of faith/understanding, we all have different struggles, stumbling blocks etc. Luckily for us, God is bigger than us, and yes if we are saved it is a done deal. And yes, contrary to one poster above we can know if we are saved and we do know when we are saved and we will meet the Lord at our death, not because of anything we did or didn't do but rather because of what He did for us.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, not a gift (Gal. 5.22-23).

 

[theseed]

I have a question that I have asked a few times with no response concerning the elect and OSAS. Maybe someone here could help me out.

Was Adam saved?

I ask this in the context of Christ being the new Adam. By Him we are made righteous, just as by Adam we were made sinners. If (and this is a big "if") Christ came to restore what was lost, how are we any different than Adam, before the fall?

In regards to Adam, God had to sacrifice an animal to cover his nakedness--this is the closest thing I know of concerning his salvation. God made Adam and Eve a little lower than the angels, however, because of the work of Christ, we are not only forgiven of our sin, but we are also glorified and exalted because of the work of Christ. God takes us (Christians) to a new level that Adam did not orginally enjoy.

 

[theseed]

I'm sorry, after re-reading my post I should have been more specific. Was Adam in a saved condition before he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?

Adam was not in need of salvation before he sinned.

 

[theseed]

I guess it would depend somewhat on your definition of salvation. To state it another way, is it possible for a person to fall from grace, and was Adam in that state.

Adam was not in a state of grace, he was perfect/complete and did not need mercy or grace.

 

[theseed]

In my opinion, there is one form of once saved, always saved that goes against free will. That would be the kind that says that once you are saved you are always saved regardless of whether you willingly walk away from Christianity or not. Personally, I believe that once a person is saved, they are always saved unless they willingly and consciously give up Christianity and their salvation.

Reformed Theology (Calvinism) teaches that once a person is saved, they will always persevere in the faith and overcome. The work that God starts in thier heart, he also finishes (Phil. 1.6)

This is why Newton sang, "through many dangers, toils, and snares, I have already come. Grace has brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home."

 

[theseed]

i look at the eth ending on many verses that deal with this subject and eth means continual action, it is dangerous in my mind to believe i am saved and can do what i want as the carnal man would run with that, i agree that once you are saved you want to do what god wants but there is always the old nature with satan tempting you so if i believed this i would have no trouble giving in. i must continuously ask forgiveness because we all sin daily so why should salvation be any different

Because when God loves, he loves to the uttermost (John 13.1)

 

[mixster]

I do not believe that God can hold anyone against their will. We must preservere to the end to be saved as we have a free will in which God made us that way. Why would anyone want to go to heaven if they no longer believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. They would be miserable. Now I do not believe one could lose their salvation over and over again but if we ever gave up the faith we would be lost forever as there is no more sacrifice that Christ could gived as he has already did it at Calvary.

I get this from the Scripture that says if we being once saved then fall away there is nothing else for us since Christ died once and for all for us and we cant crucify him again. After saying this I have to admit I can not understand how anyone could give up the faith after knowing Jesus and I have never known anyone to do so, but it is possible I believe.

Has anyone here ever known someone to give up the faith after being born again? Maybe they were never saved to begin with or backslidden but even a backslider does not renounce Jesus and when they sin they know they have sinned and will repent one way or the other.

Another question folks? Can a Christian commit the unpardonable sin of blasaphemy of the Holy Ghost?

 

[ZiSunka]

I honestly believe that since salvation isn't about us generating faith in Christ, but that faith is a gift from God and God is no Indian-giver, that if you are really saved, really have saving faith in God, then once you are saved, you are saved. It doesn't have to do with a little prayer or going up to the altar or being baptized. So any experience of that is just going through the motions, nothing more. Salvation is about a saving faith that includes a real relationship with God through the belief that you are a sinner and needs to be saved, that Christ is the only way to get that, that you are willing to humble yourself and ask for that salvation through Christ and that you determine that he will be Lord of your life and you will follow his teachings. It doesn't mean that if you sin, you will "lose" your salvation, or even if you turn your back on the church for a while that you are going to hell.

Salvation is a gift from God and he doesn't take it back. There are a zillion references to not losing any of them, being like the shepherd that seeks for the lost members of the flock until they are found, sweeping oout the whole house until the lost coin is found, celebrating when the lost ones come back and so on. But there is not one reference to following the "rules" or being thrown into hell. Not ONE.

 

[daveleau]

No. It is not possible for a Believer to harden his heart in rejection so much against God that He commits the unpardonable sin of saying that God's acts are really the Devil's.


As for OSAS/OSNAS, there is too much evidence to support OSAS. A Christian can not lose their salvation. If someone turns from God, how do we know he lost his salvation? Aren't we supposed to refrain from such judgments? Also, how do we know they really ever believed? Billy Graham's roommate in seminary turned from God shortly after graduation. Graham says that he doesn't believe the man ever truly believed and that is why his roommate is now a devoted atheist. Graham is a OSAS.

John 6: 37-39; 10:28-30
Rom 8:28-30
1 Cor 1:8-9
Philippians 1:6
1 Pet 1:5

 

[BT]

I'm sorry, after re-reading my post I should have been more specific. Was Adam in a saved condition before he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?

That's worded a bit tricky. Adam was perfect when he was created and perfect up to the point of the fall (the apple). In fact not only Adam, but all things were perfect.

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Why else would we believe that all of creation was perfect prior to the fall?

Because the curse of the fall affected all of creation. This, the first sin, set a curse upon

1) Mankind
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

2) Beasts
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

3) The earth
Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

4) All things (thereby necessitating the following)

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I have always felt that this doctrine Baptist teach could be dangerous and I will tell you why. When I was a child of 11 I went to a SB church and when the alter call was given an old fellow reached over and whispered in my ear that if I did not go foreward I could end up in hell one day. Well I went forward and joined the church and was baptized and thought I was cool and on my way to heaven. But the truth is when I was baptized I went down a sinner and came up a wet one and not until many years later did I really meet Jesus and was born again and baptized for real. Now if I had not had this opportunity I might have lived my life thinking I was cool and when I died I would have ended up right where that old guy said I would go and that was hell.
Over the years I have known many folks that professed to be good christians and even were sunday school teachers, and deacons but they were no more christian than my car. THey would go to church every week and during the week live like the devil and say the Lords name in vain every other word it seems. I knew this fellow recently that went to a Baptist church and when he came to work he bragged on how he just taught Sunday School, and then pulled a Porn magazine out of his briefcase and split the air with profanity.
Now I know no Christian is perfect and we can sin, but when we do we repent immediately and we sure dont practice it as if nothing were wrong with it.
This once saved always saved business can be dangerous because many folks are taught this in church and in reality they were not really born again. In other words we cant just get someone to say a few words and leave them hanging . We have to make absolutely sure they know what they are doing and what it all means. In other words counsul them before they join a church or be baptized.
Now I do believe once we are saved , if we are really saved and born again, we are saved forever and only one time IF we keep the faith until the end, but there are many Baptist out there that do not have a clue and this is dangerous.........

Perhaps where your confusion is that just because someone claims to be a Christian, it doesn't mean they are. A person cannot just say a prayer and be saved if he is not sincere and approved by God.
God is the one who determines if a person's heart is truly believing.

So on the basis that it is God who draws, sees the true intent f our heart, forgives, cleanses, gives us to Christ, adopts us, gives the Holy Spirit as a pledge of our inhereitance - then yes, I can say that once saved, always saved because it is the work of God Almighty.



Salvation is not a revolving door - saved, not saved/saved/not saved...
And I haven't seen where we can turn back to the old creature once made the new...

 

[stuck43]

well i will tell you my story i have been single for 5 years and somehow in the midst of that i got stuck on porn myself. No matter how hard i pray and plead i cant seem to quit this problem. It seems to be an attack on my mind if i dont do it i literally lose it. I was saved and baptized as a christian 4 years ago i believe every word in the bible is true and i have changed my life alot since i got saved quit smoking quit doing drugs quit being obese due to gluttony, but it all comes back to that one problem driving me insane. If god meets the sinner just where we are well thats where i was at the beginning and its a a sickness thats unstoppable at the moment for some reason.
They have actually done studies on what lust does to ones brain and scientists say its harder to give up than heroin. I have fell away from church and god 2 times now this is my second due to the guilt of this sin it pushes me away from god. But i still feel like i am being convicted by the spirit and if this is what i brought to the table when i met god then isnt this what i needed jesus to save me from. There are different levels of faith in god if god meets you where you are. What does one say to a heroin addict that has been on it for so long hes sure to die if he quits, but then gets awakened to belief in jesus? What are the fruits of the spirit some 10 fold some 30 some 60.
How could i be evil and even have come to the point of being baptized and absolute belief in jesus if i wasnt being drawn to the lord and feel lead to change my life for him but i got complications paul said flee sexual immorality for all other sin is outside the body but this is sinning against your own body. What am i supposed to do to quit something like this after i became saved and realized its wrong. Seems to be to late when the overpowering thoughts are imbedded in your brain.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I have fell away from church and god 2 times now this is my second due to the guilt of this sin it pushes me away from god. But i still feel like i am being convicted by the spirit and if this is what i brought to the table when i met god then isnt this what i needed jesus to save me from. There are different levels of faith in god if god meets you where you are. What does one say to a heroin addict that has been on it for so long hes sure to die if he quits, but then gets awakened to belief in jesus? What are the fruits of the spirit some 10 fold some 30 some 60.
How could i be evil and even have come to the point of being baptized and absolute belief in jesus if i wasnt being drawn to the lord and feel lead to change my life for him but i got complications paul said flee sexual immorality for all other sin is outside the body but this is sinning against your own body. What am i supposed to do to quit something like this after i became saved and realized its wrong. Seems to be to late when the overpowering thoughts are imbedded in your brain.

First of all, you are still saved. For proof, you are being convicted by the Holy Spirit. Stuck, if it was THAT easy for a christian to have no sin we would all be happier christians. Do you forget you have an old nature that still lives? You are feeding that old nature. Another thing, Do you really thing Satan wants you happy? Do you think he wants you to give up your old ways? No way does he. He is already mad you beat the first things you listed.
You need to fight the lust feelings, get rid of ALL the porn and find a verse to meditate upon to defend your spirit when you are being attacked with lustful thoughts. Start feeding your new man by feeding it the word of God. It WORKS!
GEL

 

[ZiSunka]

well i will tell you my story i have been single for 5 years and somehow in the midst of that i got stuck on porn myself. No matter how hard i pray and plead i cant seem to quit this problem. It seems to be an attack on my mind if i dont do it i literally lose it...How could i be evil and even have come to the point of being baptized and absolute belief in jesus if i wasnt being drawn to the lord and feel lead to change my life for him but i got complications paul said flee sexual immorality for all other sin is outside the body but this is sinning against your own body. What am i supposed to do to quit something like this after i became saved and realized its wrong. Seems to be to late when the overpowering thoughts are imbedded in your brain.

Hi stuck!

It turns out that a lot of times, people get addicted to porn because they have an untreated underlying depression. Using porn lifts your spirits for a moment, then drops them lower than before, so you use more porn to lift your spirits, then they drop lower again, so you use more porn, and so on.

See your doctor to find out if you have an underlying depression. He or she can give you a short questionaire that will tell them whether or not depression is your problem. If so, they will refer you to a psychologist and offer you medication for the depression.

You're right, you are probably helpless to make yourself stop thinking about porn, but you don't have to stay hopeless. If depression is causing your problem, no amount of prayer or Bible-reading is going to help. See your doctor as soon as possible and see how fast you can feel better and do better.

 

[eldermike]

We have become very confused in the un-persecuted church. People who get saved under persecution undersand this doctrine. Jesus said that we would be dragged in front of rullers and even give our lives for His Name! People who are killed in the Name of Jesus are not tested to see if they are breaking any rules of the Christian faith.

Your witness for Christ is what's saved, it's not about you. It's about your purpose.
MT 11:27 "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

I have always felt that this doctrine Baptist teach could be dangerous and I will tell you why. When I was a child of 11 I went to a SB church and when the alter call was given an old fellow reached over and whispered in my ear that if I did not go foreward I could end up in hell one day.

What an awful thing to say to a young kid! Good post as well, was talking to someone about this at Christmas and they said it was about being continously saved.

However lambslove also presents a convincing argument.

Steve

 

[FreeinChrist]

well i will tell you my story i have been single for 5 years and somehow in the midst of that i got stuck on porn myself. No matter how hard i pray and plead i cant seem to quit this problem. It seems to be an attack on my mind if i dont do it i literally lose it. I was saved and baptized as a christian 4 years ago i believe every word in the bible is true and i have changed my life alot since i got saved quit smoking quit doing drugs quit being obese due to gluttony, but it all comes back to that one problem driving me insane. If god meets the sinner just where we are well thats where i was at the beginning and its a a sickness thats unstoppable at the moment for some reason.
They have actually done studies on what lust does to ones brain and scientists say its harder to give up than heroin. I have fell away from church and god 2 times now this is my second due to the guilt of this sin it pushes me away from god. But i still feel like i am being convicted by the spirit and if this is what i brought to the table when i met god then isnt this what i needed jesus to save me from. There are different levels of faith in god if god meets you where you are. What does one say to a heroin addict that has been on it for so long hes sure to die if he quits, but then gets awakened to belief in jesus? What are the fruits of the spirit some 10 fold some 30 some 60.
How could i be evil and even have come to the point of being baptized and absolute belief in jesus if i wasnt being drawn to the lord and feel lead to change my life for him but i got complications paul said flee sexual immorality for all other sin is outside the body but this is sinning against your own body. What am i supposed to do to quit something like this after i became saved and realized its wrong. Seems to be to late when the overpowering thoughts are imbedded in your brain.

There are several things probably going on. One, as emtnioned, you may be dealing with depression and loneliness. Two, you may be dealing with the efforts of Satan to mess up your Christian witness. Three, having been married and are now single, you are dealing with your body's natural instinct and the loss of a partner to deal with it.

My suggestions, for what they are worth:

1. pray for assistence from God
2. throw away any porn in the house and try to remove what tempts you
3. read the Bible, set up a period of time to focus on it. And when tempted, say no in the name of Christ.
4. Pray more
5. See a psychiatrist as you may be dealing with a significant depression which is underlying the whole porn problem. You might get referred to a support group.
6. Try not to have much idle time. Is there work at church to be done? Any volunteer work you can do? Is there a Christian book store around that has a coffee shop? Spend some of your leisure time reading the Bible or a Christian book in that location.
7. Check out Christian music. Fill your home with music that honors God.
8. Pray, pray, pray...

 

[daveleau]

You must cut yourself off from any source of temptation if the temptation is that incurable. Get rid of any magazines and cut off your internet connection. You should not give yourself any avenue to view it. Pornographic influence was not as severe before the internet came about. I am not one to say that the internet is evil. Far from it. But, if you find it as the source of such sin, then you must cut it off. As Christ said, if your arm sins, cut it off. This is the exact situation that Christ was talking about in Matt 5:30, 18:8 and Mark 9:43-45.

In regards to psychiatry, try Christian counseling first. Psychiatrists typically do not put faith in Christian values as the centroid of a cure. Instead, they believe in humanistic cures, which may help, but the cure you need comes from God.

 

[mixster]

Porn is a huge problem in this world and especially within the church. I have read that many in the church to include pastors and born again believers are addicted to porn. It is a trick of the devil to get our minds off Christ and on things of this world to destroy our faith . The internet like anything else can be used for good and bad and I would suggest that we set the content level on Windows to 0 for no nudity or sex and there are also Christian ISP that do the work for you and you cannot receive porn of any kind. This might be the thing to use for those who have no control. I wonder if there are any porn blockers out there that are effective? But the brother who is having these problems do not give up because just because you know it is sin shows you are a christian fighting a battle. Just know that if you sin a thousand times a thousand Jesus will forgive you no matter if you feel he isnt as long as you repent each and everytime...
Billy Graham once said he is tempted 360 days a year and he is right.