Once again, CREATIONISTS!

[LittleNipper]

So are you claiming that anyone who doesn't accept that the world was created 6,000 years ago and that there was a global flood 4,500 years ago and that evolution is the best explanation for the diversity of life on earth walks, looks and talks like an atheist? I guess you have never heard of theist evolution and don't even know that there are millions of members of every major religion who accept the scientific explanation of the world and reject your extreme interpretation of the Bible. You on the other hand make a list of specific claims that brand you specifically as a young earth creationists espousing the Omphalos hypothesis.

Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many go there in. In the time of Jacob, what percentage of the people were Israelies? Where the rest headed (according to the Old Testament ) to heaven or hell?

 

[tanzanos]

I admire AV1 for one thing: He is one of the very few creationists in this forum that does not hit and run. At least he stays for the fight.
You have to give him credit for that.

AV1 you do put up a good fight albeit most of the times you make as much sense as president Bush when he makes a speech on foreign policy. An example is when he said: "Most of our imports come from abroad"?????????? Try beating that AV1

 

[Phred]

No there wouldn't --- as I have said before --- so shall I say again --- there is no evidence for ex nihilo creation outside of the Bible --- I double-challenge you to find it.

To play the game your way, please go back to my initial post. I have no desire to rewrite things you simply skip over. The answer is in the HOW.

Ex nihilo --- that's how.

Which is not an answer. From nothing just tells me where the magic occurred. Now it's up to you and your deity to show us all exactly HOW.

Jesus quoted from both Genesis 1 and 2, and I think I will too.

Enjoy yourself.

No one has dispatched my Apple Challenge --- it is a valid question with a valid, scientific answer.

I've dispatched your apple challenge and it's you that refuses to give us the information we need to render a verdict. Your version simply shows that matter appeared in the universe. Big whoop. We know that happens all the time.

Ex nihilo --- learn it --- because if you can't get past Genesis 1, you're in for a doosey of a ride, as it only gets harder from there.

I defy you to show me those words in the Bible.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book

No you won't --- I promise you, you won't. Now I triple-dawg-dare you to take my challenge and prove your point.

Your "challenge" has been taken and dealt with. If you can't explain what happened in between the magic of the poofing into existence of basic matter and the forming of that matter into an apple then you haven't done what you say you've done. That, and that alone will convince me that you've created an apple from nothing as the measurement of all the matter in the universe is quite impossible. Now put up or shut up.

You're half right --- creation science doesn't exist, unless you're willing to count ex nihilo as scientific. (I have no problem with that.)

It's not even worthy of inclusion in childhood fairy stories. You seem to think matter has a mind of its own and will respond when told to do something as long as it's a god that tells it.

Take the en off that word, and we're on the same page.

"ver"?

Lack of evidence is not a valid reason for saying it didn't happen.

Are you certain you wish to stick with that statement? You're opening the door for all sorts of silliness. There's no evidence but did you know Jesus was a birthday clown? He would travel around to children's birthday parties and entertain with the most realistic magic tricks... that and the really big shoes made him a hit until he became thirty and realized he could use the same tricks to drive the Romans crazy. I mean, there's no evidence but that's not a valid reason to say it didn't happen... right? Shall I go on about his "partner" Marty Magdalene? The early church just removed the 't'... sure, there's no evidence but that's no reason to say it didn't happen, right? (before y'all get your undies in a twist those are just examples of how stupid this gets if you don't use some sort of reality check on what you claim)

That's got to be the dumbest thing you've ever said there AV...

 

[Loudmouth]

Is He now? A deceiver wouldn't document what He did, when He did it, and how He did it, would He?

Which one is the deception? Genesis or the Creation? How can you tell? A God willing to create two diametrically opposed accounts, one in a book and one in the rocks and stars, is a deceiver. No way around it.

Occam's Razor is quite useful in this situation. We know that humans lie. This is a known entity. It is much more likely that Genesis was written not by a Creator but by someone completely ignorant of the how the Universe came about. They are simply lying about their source of inspiration.

Well, if I created an apple into the palm of your hand ex nihilo, and you started whinning that it's an Oomphalos apple, then I'd have to find someone else to offer the million dollars to, wouldn't I?

Million dollars? I would really doubt that you would have it, given your appetite for deception (just had a GNR flashback).

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

The fact that you are a UNITARIAN, speaks for itself. Broad is the way that leads to destruction and many go there in. In the time of Jacob, what percentage of the people were Israelies? Was everyone else in the world a Unitarian? Where the rest headed (according to the Old Testament ) to heaven or hell?

I knew the No True Scotsman Fallacy would not be long in coming. I may be a Unitarian but I am also a prophet.

I would rather spend eternity almost anywhere but in the company of ignoragnt SELF-RIGHTEOUS people like LITTLE NIPPER and many of the other creationists I have run into on internet forums. That would really be torment. (This does not apply to every creationist I have run into. Some have not been nearly so obnoxious and some have been interesting and civil. AV might not be so bad. I could at least try to improve my chess game. With enterity to work on it I might finally get an A rating, or maybe not)

 

[Phred]

I would rather spend eternity almost anywhere but in the company of ignoragnt SELF-RIGHTEOUS people like LITTLE NIPPER and many of the other creationists I have run into on internet forums. That would really be torment. (This does not apply to every creationist I have run into. Some have not been nearly so obnoxious and some have been interesting and civil. AV might not be so bad. I could at least try to improve my chess game. With enterity to work on it I might finally get an A rating, or maybe not)

Until that rook appears suddenly next to your king. Where did it come from? Ex Nihilo!

 

[FishFace]

Because that's the nature of ex nihilo Creation. It was a one-time occurrence --- an act of God.

The question was why should we believe that it happened, and this doesn't answer that question.

 

[FishFace]

By all means, feel free to take a freshly-created (not 6000 years ago) apple, and show me the evidence that I did this.

You've seen it with your own eyes, now just convince someone of it.

Suppose you are shown a square circle, but the piece of paper disappears as you attempt to pick it up. Convince me of it.

 

[TheOutsider]

Here we have the fallacy of hasty generalization. Some people who support the old earth and evolution are atheists so all are. It is not an issue of atheists verses Creationists. It is a question of science (old earth and evolution) verses anti-science( young earth with special creation).

In any case we now have two of creationism's three favorite logical fallacies, the false dichotomy and hasty generalization on the same page of a thread. Can "No True Scotsman" be far behind?

You forgot about the big fallacy behind all of their claims: Special Pleading.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Until that rook appears suddenly next to your king. Where did it come from? Ex Nihilo!

Now if I could do that I might win a few games. Meanwhile no actual evidence for creationism has been presented on this or any other thread.

 

[LittleNipper]

I knew the No True Scotsman Fallacy would not be long in coming. I may be a Unitarian but I am also a prophet.

I would rather spend eternity almost anywhere but in the company of ignoragnt SELF-RIGHTEOUS people like LITTLE NIPPER and many of the other creationists I have run into on internet forums. That would really be torment. (This does not apply to every creationist I have run into. Some have not been nearly so obnoxious and some have been interesting and civil. AV might not be so bad. I could at least try to improve my chess game. With enterity to work on it I might finally get an A rating, or maybe not)

Well, see that is the real difference between real christians and those who assume a role. I'd love for you and everyone else to find CHRIST and be all together in heaven. I don't wish to see anyone miss the boat.

 

[LittleNipper]

Now if I could do that I might win a few games. Meanwhile no actual evidence for creationism has been presented on this or any other thread.

Nor for evolution. GOD is real to me and that is what counts.

 

[TheOutsider]

Nor for evolution.

Have you already forgotten what the topic of this thread is already? If you want evidence for evolution, Google is just a click away.

GOD is real to me and that is what counts.

Must... resist urge.. to post.. wrestling video....

 

[AV1611VET]

Whether a or b is true, we will never know (at least while we are alive).

And so, Psudopod, having said this, can you then come up with an arguement for Creationism, as the OP is asking?

I say, "No, you cannot" and submit my Apple Challenge as proof.

What say you?

 

[Loudmouth]

And so, Psudopod, having said this, can you then come up with an arguement for Creationism, as the OP is asking?

I say, "No, you cannot" and submit my Apple Challenge as proof.

What say you?

And so, AV, having said this, can you then come up with an argument for Last Thursdayism?

I say, "No, you can not" and submit your own Apple Challenge as proof.

If post-modernism and solipsism is your only defense you have already lost.

 

[AV1611VET]

In creating the apple, AV, you are essentially copying a pre-existing object, therefore your apple will have all the traits as that of a ripe apple, evidence of age and history. The universe, however, let us assume, isn't a copy of a pre-existing object but was the first and possibly only universe ever to be created.

Like I said, Allister, if an apple is too hard to comprehend, use a fork, a rope, a car --- replace it with anything.

All I'm asking is what evidence would you use to convince your friend I did this?

I contend that the correct answer this side of omniscience is, "none."

And that answer should satisfy the OP.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

And so, Psudopod, having said this, can you then come up with an arguement for Creationism, as the OP is asking?

I say, "No, you cannot" and submit my Apple Challenge as proof.

What say you?

So what it comes down to is the only argument you can come up with for creationism is your version of the Omphalos hypothesis which is not evidence at all but merely a claim that it could somehow be true even though there is no evidence for it. This does not count as evidence for your myth any more than the fact that you can't falsify the presence of invisible pink unicorns that leave no tracks or other traces of their presence in my backyard is evidence that there actually are invisible pink unicorns in my back yard.

 

[AV1611VET]

You seem to think matter has a mind of its own and will respond when told to do something as long as it's a god that tells it.

What you've just described here is called creatio ex materia --- not creatio ex nihilo.

Ex nihilo is a Latin term meaning "out of nothing". It is often used in conjunction with the term creation, as in creatio ex nihilo, meaning "creation out of nothing". Due to the nature of this term, it is often used in philosophical or creationistic arguments, as many Chritians, Muslims and Jews believe that God created the universe from nothing. This contrasts with "creatio ex materia," which is creation out of eternally preexistent matter, and "creatio ex deo," which is creation out of the being of God.

 

[AV1611VET]

The question was why should we believe that it happened, and this doesn't answer that question.

The question is simply this:

Can you come up with an argument for creationism...

The answer is simply this: No --- not outside of the Bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Meanwhile no actual evidence for creationism has been presented on this or any other thread.

Nooooow we're getting somewhere.