Once a Christian ALWAYS a Christian

[DarkProphet]

except of course when they stop being Christian in which case they were NEVER a Christian.

How do you justify this contradiction of ex-Christians never having been Christian when they lived, prayed, and believed as a Christian?

 

[samphillipssr]

The KJV Bible says, John 8:31 - " Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My Word, then are ye my disciples indeed; "

Notice, Jesus says "if ye continue"

 

[Dark_Lite]

except of course when they stop being Christian in which case they were NEVER a Christian.

How do you justify this contradiction of ex-Christians never having been Christian when they lived, prayed, and believed as a Christian?

I justify it by saying it makes no sense and isn't right?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

except of course when they stop being Christian in which case they were NEVER a Christian.

How do you justify this contradiction of ex-Christians never having been Christian when they lived, prayed, and believed as a Christian?

Jesus has declared that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[DarkProphet]

Jesus has declared that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian:

Many people that left Christianity genuinely believed they were Christian so in what way did they fail?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Many people that left Christianity genuinely believed they were Christian so in what way did they fail?

The people in Matthew 7 genuinely believed they were Christians, too, but Jesus said that He never knew them.

 

[Chesterton]

Many people that left Christianity genuinely believed they were Christian so in what way did they fail?

Or they were Christian and have renounced the faith. "Once Saved Always Saved" is not a traditional idea.

 

[ebia]

except of course when they stop being Christian in which case they were NEVER a Christian.

How do you justify this contradiction of ex-Christians never having been Christian when they lived, prayed, and believed as a Christian?

Scripture barely mentions being a Christian, let alone saying anything equivalent to your title.

 

[DarkProphet]

Not sure where you get that idea. The whole NT is divided up between instructions to the church and teachings to Christians about how to grow in Christ.

Most of it is Paul's opinions on Christian doctrine and practice, I never understood why he is held in such high regard in these matters.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Most of it is Paul's opinions on Christian doctrine and practice, I never understood why he is held in such high regard in these matters.

He's held in such a high regard because Jesus Christ picked him, personally to speak on His behalf and his writings are inspired by God.

 

[Emmy]

Dear DarkProphet. If someone believes, lives and prays as a Christian, and then stops doing so, he or she must have a reason, or at least THINK they have a reason. Only God sees our hearts, He knows our thoughts and wishes, and He will know Why? There could be a number of reasons, and Jesus did mention this when talking of children: " If anyone causes these little ones to stumble or worse, it would be better for the guilty one, NOT to have done so." I am trying to say, IF the Christian stops praying and living as a Christian, there may well be someone to have to justify himself to God for this. God sees our hearts, and God knows the guilty ones. I say this humbly and kindly, DarkProphet. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[DarkProphet]

Dear DarkProphet. If someone believes, lives and prays as a Christian, and then stops doing so, he or she must have a reason, or at least THINK they have a reason. Only God sees our hearts, He knows our thoughts and wishes, and He will know Why? There could be a number of reasons, and Jesus did mention this when talking of children: " If anyone causes these little ones to stumble or worse, it would be better for the guilty one, NOT to have done so." I am trying to say, IF the Christian stops praying and living as a Christian, there may well be someone to have to justify himself to God for this. God sees our hearts, and God knows the guilty ones. I say this humbly and kindly, DarkProphet. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

And what if the Christian stops being Christian because of personal reflection and investigation?

 

[Kris10leigh]

In Judaism, a person is a Jew by birth. Not so in Christianity. A person has the right to choose whether they are Christian or not, and are again welcomed back into the fold should they return. I think we would be doing a huge disservice to people to say otherwise.

Case in point:
I grew up a Christian. In college I rejected Christianity and came very close to converting to Judaism. Today I again believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Some would have me believe He won't take me back?

Hogwash

 

[Sketcher]

except of course when they stop being Christian in which case they were NEVER a Christian.

How do you justify this contradiction of ex-Christians never having been Christian when they lived, prayed, and believed as a Christian?

It's a matter of election, really. "Once Saved, Always Saved" is a Calvinist doctrine, and you can't really have this without the Calvinist doctrine of election. "The elect" are the true Christians. If you're one of them, you will go to Heaven. From this point of view, it's all about the endgame. Peter denied Jesus three times, Jesus called him back, and he came back. His coming back and remaining shows that he was one of the elect, in spite of his denials. There are people today who renounce the faith for one reason or another. Some of them will come back, like Peter did. Some will not. Those that do are part of the elect. Those that don't never were. And since life is long and full of surprises, anybody who rejected the Lord doesn't know if they're going to come back or not, so when they use themselves as a counterexample to the rule, it doesn't work. You don't know what you're going to be believing when you die.

 

[DerSchweik]

MOD HAT ON

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ONLY RESPOND TO THE OP!
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MOD HAT OFF​

 

[heron]

Salvation is an offer. The redemption for all of us was paid and sealed once, for all. The offer always stands. We can repent and turn to God, or not. We can return to Him after taking our own trails. It is not treated lightly, but it is treated personally, and God knows our hearts.

People who choose different paths are turning down the invitation. Who knows if God might still welcome them to Heaven. They have chosen to not accept the offer to be with Him in paradise.

If someone believes, lives and prays as a Christian, and then stops doing so, he or she must have a reason, or at least THINK they have a reason. Only God sees our hearts, He knows our thoughts and wishes, and He will know

(Trying not to respond to others' posts) I agree. Sometimes people leave Christianity because the Christians they meet are so irritating. God knows what people have gone through, and why the faith no longer makes sense.

 

[seashale76]

except of course when they stop being Christian in which case they were NEVER a Christian.

How do you justify this contradiction of ex-Christians never having been Christian when they lived, prayed, and believed as a Christian?

Of course people can cease to be Christians. A current state of non-belief doesn't negate the fact that someone used to believe. Of course, the Orthodox don't go around claiming to be saved considering none of us have finished our race yet, so maybe that's the difference. I think this is a distinctly Protestant or Evangelical dilemma you're speaking about.

 

[heron]

Of course, the Orthodox don't go around claiming to be saved considering none of us have finished our race yet, so maybe that's the difference.

Good contrast. There are many paths of Christianity that aren't in the limelight.