On work time

[jigawatt]

What is appropriate between a married couple while on work time? My wife and I have been discussing this due to differing opinions on the matter. I have a mobile job so accompany her to work periodically, using my laptop and tethered data from a commons area. We are able to see each other at lunch, though try to not cross paths much otherwise as she fears it would cause her to look unprofessional or have coworkers/supervisors suspicious of her productivity. (We have differed on this, but I understand her concern and am not going to protest that one!) Even on lunch, though, we may be holding hands while walking away from the workplace (or back to it after lunch) but if she spots a colleague or associate, often tends to let go and walk a couple steps ahead. Outside of lunch, if we are walking together (such as taking time off for medical or personal leave), or going between buildings, she also prefers to walk with some distance between us and not touching, saying it is not right to her employer. I have said this seems extreme, but I have also needed to give that up because it really does make her uncomfortable. The topic came up again recently when she needed to take some time off due to illness.

After she took a longer nap and started feeling better, awake and in good spirits, I offered to take some annual leave to be able to spend some time together (possibly including sex) before a busy evening. She said she would normally want to, but had told her employer she was taking sick leave until 5 so we needed to wait until 5 or after, as it would not be right to use sick leave for personal time. (We could sit together at home, but not touch/have sex until 5 PM. If I would wait until then/not stress about it, she'd be ready at 5:00 straight.) I again said this seemed unreasonable, but she insisted that this was right and normal and that I was being too lax about ethics to her employer and that she could not do so in good conscience. As soon as the clock hit 5:00, anything was possible. I did not want to violate her conscience, so I complied, working from another room and interacting with her but not touching, flirting, or trying to initiate intimacy until 5 PM. Still, is she taking a normal, ethical standard of integrity toward her employer? Or is it excessive and should I be trying to gently help her see this if and when it comes up again? I want to respect her convictions in this area, and don't personally have a lot of experience with what's appropriate for working couples (having worked from home/mobile for much of my career including my entire married life) -- but at the same time, her convictions in this area seem awfully restrictive. She told me if I surveyed other married couples, she felt sure I would learn she was right. I guess that's why I'm asking... if she's right, I'll fully accept that! If others disagree, though, I may try to make a reasonable/humble case for another perspective when we have time to talk about it.

She has assured me that her image at work does not come first, but sometimes I have difficulty feeling prioritized since in many ways her job does come first. (Her image at work, her work schedule, evening and weekend shifts, not doing too much in the evening so as to be ready for work the next day, checking work emails in the evening/weekend, and treating paid time off such as sick leave as still being on work time.) Trying to be reasonable, balanced, and loving to her in this -- just not sure what's reasonable or healthy to expect or ask of her in this area.
Thank you.

 

[ValleyGal]

I'm not so sure her logic will stand up to scrutiny. Iow, if it was not just being sick and staying home for the day, how would that be handled....let's say she was walking to her car to head to work for the day, and she slipped and broke her arm. I'm sure you'd take her to the hospital, sit with her, exchange non-work discussion, and even hold her unbroken hand. Or would she also say you are not allowed to be seen with her in public because it was on work time, or that you are not allowed to hold her hand because it was a paid sick day?

My husband would occasionally drop me off at work, pick me up, meet me for lunch, etc. He even came in to my office to wait for me one day. I had to go and take a form to the receptionist, and as I passed by my husband, I gave him a loving touch on his shoulder. There were no clients in the office. It did not take any time away from what I was doing, did not damage my professionalism or my integrity. When he dropped me off, he would kiss me goodbye; when he picked me up, he would kiss me hello. Personally, I did not see anything wrong with that - it's not like we were making out in front of my office building.

Imo, it's a pretty cold boss who would say something about an affectionate expression between spouses for drop-off, pick-up or lunch hour. And when she is at home recovering from being sick, there is nothing wrong with affection - or even sex. The physical activity could be really conducive to getting well.

Back to the broken arm scenario....if she was then on sick leave for six weeks recovering from a broken arm, does that mean she would not be affectionate or personal with you from 9 - 5 for the whole six weeks? That makes no sense at all.

 

[Avniel]

I think it's a bit extreme. Unless there are clauses in her contract and or company policy that dictates behavior during breaks which is highly unlikely due to the legality that it could bring up. I think that ethically it is ok to be affectionate when not on company time.

 

[BigDaddy4]

PTO = Personal time off. May be used to recover from a broken arm, feeling sick, or having sex with your spouse. It's PERSONAL time off.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

She told me if I surveyed other married couples, she felt sure I would learn she was right. I guess that's why I'm asking... if she's right, I'll fully accept that! If others disagree, though, I may try to make a reasonable/humble case for another perspective when we have time to talk about it.

No, I don't think that your wife's views on this are normal.

I visit my husband at work once in a while and we kiss each other. A quick peck to say hello and good-bye. We hold hands. When I worked in an office he would visit me and same thing.

I think as long as you're not making out at work, it's normal to have some displays of affection between spouses. In fact, I think if I worked with your wife and I saw her pull away from you or walk ahead of you, I'd wonder what was up with that because that's not normal.

As far as sick days go... It's really none of your employer's business if you get it on with your spouse on a sick day. I don't think most employers care what their employees do on their sick days. You get a certain number of them, they're part of your compensation package, if you choose to use one of your sick days for some nookie with your spouse, who cares? In fact, a lot of companies don't have "sick days" per se, they have "paid time off" which you can use for vacation or sick days.

Do you guys have kids? Because it makes me wonder what she would do about having to take time off for a kid being sick. Is she allowed to hug her children when she takes a sick day?

 

[JCLover779]

I agree that it does seem a bit extreme when written up HOWEVER that is exactly the way I handle it. I do not think you have written it up to seem extreme.

I have worked at my current place for over 15 years. My family does not visit me there, nor call me. Emails are kept to a bare minimum and they need to be work related in SOME fashion (for example: letting me know which days I need to request off for vacation is OK - asking me to order a book on Amazon is not). They do text me from time to time - to let me know someone has arrived home. Part of that is a function of my job, but it also has do with professionalism. Most of my co-workers are the same way that I am. I think I would find out if you wife is acting in a similar fashion with her co-workers. I have one co-worker who is constantly on the phone with her family. While she does keep it quick, it looks bad, it places burdens on others when she is not available, and, frankly, it doesn't help her case when she tries to point out that she is not just "slow" at what she does. It is fine where I work for a spouse/friend/significant-other to show up to pick some-one up. They can even hang out with us for a few minutes if they are not in the way.

It irks me to no end when my husband takes a sick day and then decides that after a couple hour nap he is ready to go shopping (and should still be at work). If all you needed was a couple hour nap, then you didn't get the sleep you needed (possibly b/c you were watching movies too late) and your work suffered. Why should you be making your employer pay for that? Now, his work culture is completely different than mine and he's actually one of the most dependable workers there - so I do try to keep that in perspective and not completely put my work experience onto how he should be behaving.

I would actually agree with your wife on the "no sex until after 5pm" thing. If she is healthy enough for sex, then she should have been at work. I think having lunch with her, when she is off the clock, should be fine (from how I would behave), but, like her, I'd keep the PDAs to a minimum or non-existant.

 

[JCLover779]

PTO = Personal time off. May be used to recover from a broken arm, feeling sick, or having sex with your spouse. It's PERSONAL time off.

I agree with this. What it comes down to is how the employer has portrayed it and the nature of the job.

Where I work, we cannot use sick time until we have been sick for at least two days in a row and have a doctor's note - unless we are admitted to the hospital - then it's from day one, but still need a note. It really IS sick time.

Where my husband works, it is called PTO. They can take a sick day b/c they are "sick of work" if they want.

 

[JCLover779]

P.S. Possibly she could ease up on the "not walking with you". I'd think it was fine to walk beside you - even in my job, it would be fine - as long as she is on her own time.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

In my husband's civilian job, there were lots of couples who either worked in the same building or in nearby buildings. They ALL got together at lunchtime...it was pretty obvious who was in a relationship. I occasionally would go down and meet my husband at lunch and we'd kiss in greeting and good-bye and nobody looked twice. Even when he was on active duty we'd do the same.

I think the OP's wife has an issue with this for some reason. Her logic just isn't standing up to serious scrutiny.

 

[Avniel]

In my husband's civilian job, there were lots of couples who either worked in the same building or in nearby buildings. They ALL got together at lunchtime...it was pretty obvious who was in a relationship. I occasionally would go down and meet my husband at lunch and we'd kiss in greeting and good-bye and nobody looked twice. Even when he was on active duty we'd do the same.

I think the OP's wife has an issue with this for some reason. Her logic just isn't standing up to serious scrutiny.

Yeah in fact I think that is pretty typical in an area like downtown manhattan that's how most couples do. Hey a how are you doing and a good bye see you later kiss, I do think making out around the corner down the block from your job is unprofessional but what you are talking about to me is normal.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Does she wear her wedding ring to work?

 

[Odetta]

I think the whole no sex until after 5 pm thing was because maybe she felt guilty for not being at work now that she felt better.

Her rules seem rigid to me. But some employers to happen to be quite rigid. While my current employer is very relaxed about having family members in the office, previous employers have been more strict. DH and I have never done PDA in the office setting, but we do walk together and obviously look like we're together.

 

[HannahT]

Is it rigid and a bit extreme? Yes, but it really doesn't do any harm either.

We all have our wriedness. Just accept it, and move on.

Nothing wrong with having discussions about it, but you may just have to live with the fact she doesn't agree...and never WILL.

The H and I have a couple of areas of big differences of opinion, but you need to live life around them. The differences don't truly make a huge impact of the relationship itself, or in life in general. lol its just one of those annoyances of living with someone!

 

[cerette]

Sounds a bit too strict to me. It's of course good that she wants to do what is right, but I am not sure I'd agree with her view on what is right and what is not.

 

[akmom]

It's really weird that she doesn't want to hold hands or even walk next to you. Who cares? If you're getting from Point A to Point B, then is it really interfering with her getting her job done? I'm sure if someone else approached her - a colleague or even a random friend - that she would feel okay talking to them. And I bet no one would raise an eyebrow!

Now I can understand being uncomfortable with PDA in the workplace. It can look unprofessional. A quick kiss when leaving or going is fine, but I probably wouldn't hold my husband's hand at a professional function. It's just... out of place. Talking and walking together? That's absolutely normal.

In terms of sick leave, it depends on whether she has PTO or actual sick leave. My father's employees actually get X amount of vacation and X sick days. "Sick days" are supposed to be legitimate sick days, because they involve taking unexpected time off, which is inconvenient to an employer. Sick days are above and beyond what is allotted for vacation, meaning you are not expected to waste your vacation when you get sick; it is a courtesy that you are only supposed to use if you need it. Vacation days, you can do whatever you want, because you schedule them in advance and your employer is not depending on you to be there. I don't think it matters what you do on your sick day, as long as you honestly couldn't or shouldn't go to work (such as if you're injured or contagious). If you took a sick day when you weren't sick, well you cheated your employer, whether you enjoy that time or not.

It sounds like your wife might just be a little socially awkward. If she is worried about being scrutinized, that will likely dissipate in time, as she figures out her colleague's expectations and her dependability is well-established.

 

[jigawatt]

Thanks, everyone, for the insight and responses. As it turns out we may have some changes with work and jobs imposed as we may both be changing jobs soon. Have been able to discuss this more and understand each other better although the upcoming job changes, if they happen, will also give us something new to work on and grow from.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Not sure why but I am reminded of a skit I seen where a wife was showing her husband a list of things for the day to at and at a certain time:

8:00 wake up
8:01 get up and to to use bathroom
8:04 brush teeth
8:06 kiss me quickly
8:07 prepare coffee
8:10 have sex
8:11 get dressed
8:20 eat breakfast and drink coffee
8:30 leave for work.

 

[contango]

What is appropriate between a married couple while on work time? My wife and I have been discussing this due to differing opinions on the matter. I have a mobile job so accompany her to work periodically, using my laptop and tethered data from a commons area. We are able to see each other at lunch, though try to not cross paths much otherwise as she fears it would cause her to look unprofessional or have coworkers/supervisors suspicious of her productivity. (We have differed on this, but I understand her concern and am not going to protest that one!) Even on lunch, though, we may be holding hands while walking away from the workplace (or back to it after lunch) but if she spots a colleague or associate, often tends to let go and walk a couple steps ahead. Outside of lunch, if we are walking together (such as taking time off for medical or personal leave), or going between buildings, she also prefers to walk with some distance between us and not touching, saying it is not right to her employer. I have said this seems extreme, but I have also needed to give that up because it really does make her uncomfortable. The topic came up again recently when she needed to take some time off due to illness.

After she took a longer nap and started feeling better, awake and in good spirits, I offered to take some annual leave to be able to spend some time together (possibly including sex) before a busy evening. She said she would normally want to, but had told her employer she was taking sick leave until 5 so we needed to wait until 5 or after, as it would not be right to use sick leave for personal time. (We could sit together at home, but not touch/have sex until 5 PM. If I would wait until then/not stress about it, she'd be ready at 5:00 straight.) I again said this seemed unreasonable, but she insisted that this was right and normal and that I was being too lax about ethics to her employer and that she could not do so in good conscience. As soon as the clock hit 5:00, anything was possible. I did not want to violate her conscience, so I complied, working from another room and interacting with her but not touching, flirting, or trying to initiate intimacy until 5 PM. Still, is she taking a normal, ethical standard of integrity toward her employer? Or is it excessive and should I be trying to gently help her see this if and when it comes up again? I want to respect her convictions in this area, and don't personally have a lot of experience with what's appropriate for working couples (having worked from home/mobile for much of my career including my entire married life) -- but at the same time, her convictions in this area seem awfully restrictive. She told me if I surveyed other married couples, she felt sure I would learn she was right. I guess that's why I'm asking... if she's right, I'll fully accept that! If others disagree, though, I may try to make a reasonable/humble case for another perspective when we have time to talk about it.

She has assured me that her image at work does not come first, but sometimes I have difficulty feeling prioritized since in many ways her job does come first. (Her image at work, her work schedule, evening and weekend shifts, not doing too much in the evening so as to be ready for work the next day, checking work emails in the evening/weekend, and treating paid time off such as sick leave as still being on work time.) Trying to be reasonable, balanced, and loving to her in this -- just not sure what's reasonable or healthy to expect or ask of her in this area.
Thank you.

I think your wife is taking the separation of work and play to an extreme level.

When I worked in an office full time my wife would sometimes come and meet me for lunch. She couldn't get into the building properly because she didn't have a security pass, so she'd call me from reception and I'd go down to meet her. There's no problem with showing affection - it's not as if I'd hired a hooker to come and entertain me for my lunch hour - but there's a difference between an affectionate greeting and inappropriate behaviour in the office. Passionate/French kissing in the office would cross the line, as it would be inappropriate to be doing that sort of thing in front of clients.

If you were sitting next to her during her working day, constantly flirting and giggling, that would quite rightly raise questions among the others in the office. She's paid to work, not flirt and giggle with you. But if she's afraid that someone else will see her - shock! horror! - walking with her husband when going somewhere and maybe even holding hands, I'd wonder why she's so worried about it.

Paid time off is arguably slightly tricker, but I still think she's being excessive. Paid time off would logically include vacation time, so presumably she wouldn't want to use her paid vacation time to go on a week in the sun with you because you might end up having sex on company time. Sick leave is perhaps slightly different but as someone already said if she was at home sick you'd want to show her sympathy and affection, and frankly it's nobody else's business if you decide to have sex.

I remember times when I took a day off sick because I wasn't well, but by the middle of the afternoon I was feeling better. There's no point going in to work for the sake of doing the last hour or so of the day so I just stayed home. Why should anyone else care what she's doing - as long as she isn't calling in sick when she isn't sick it's nobody's business.

 

[cubsnotcards]

My wife and I have had similar discussions this year (and I will admit I was stressed out over it for quite a while as you - OP - were). I eventually learned the key thing was not so much that she *didn't want* to spend the time that way, but she just really did not want to feel controlled by me -- told how to spend her time (free or on the job) or how she should conduct herself at work. She wanted me to listen to her and value her work and invite her to spend time with me... not demand it.

Understanding this has helped me with similar stress and feeling of being a lower priority than her job. To the OP, possibly try having a conversation with her about it, making sure she knows you value her work and want to listen rather than dictate. It sounds like things are going to be changing soon for both of you but still try to value the present too.

That said, not trying to downplay what sounds like a stressful and difficult situation to be in. I admit I didn't understand at first either last fall when my wife and I went through some stress with our jobs and I was pushy and demanding about it. I feel like we are more on the same page now, but it did take some difficult conversations and I had to be willing to give her more space and freedom so as to not feel controlled. It isn't/wasn't easy.