*On Virginity* What the Holy Scriptures Teach

[Mobiosity]

And the purpose for a Christian to abstain is . . . ?

Uphill Battle has it down pat.

 

[Asinner]

Would to God ye could bear with me a little in [my] folly: and indeed bear with me.
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2Cor 11:1-3)

Paul here compares the reality of the New Covenant to the Garden of Eden, where Christ is Adam and the Church is Eve, and where Satan is up to his same craftiness. Paul's desire is to present a pure Church, a chaste virgin, to Christ at the second coming. -OSB

 

[sunlover1]

Would to God ye could bear with me a little in [my] folly: and indeed bear with me.
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

Of course a Bride is to be a chaste
virgin.
Don't read more into this than is there.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from

the simplicity that is in Christ.(2Cor 11:1-3)

 

[Asinner]

They vary. There is not one reason.

some samples.

1) to avoid fornication, if you are not married.
2) for a time of fasting and prayer, during marriage. (notice, it says to return to each other in quick order in the same passage!)

So there isn't a singular reason to abstain from sex!

however, the passages regarding remaining single have less to do with sex, than to do with having a mate, and by that having your "attention" divided.

A Christian who is not married should not be having sex. So then, they will be celibate, and if they remain single, remain celebate. It is not the celibacy that is of real value though.... it's the lifelong dedication to working for God, instead of getting married, and having those divided attentions that Paul mentions. You have no wife/husband to please, just God. Some are called to this. However, celebacy is more of a by-product of this, not the reason!

As Paul says, The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: Here Paul states two things: The first, is what has already been stated by UB. The next is that a virgin is holy, both physically and spiritually. Here, Paul equates virginity to Holiness, or purity. Mary is likened to the Church . . . both are married . . . both are Holy and Pure, both virgins.

Love,
Christina

 

[Uphill Battle]

Would to God ye could bear with me a little in [my] folly: and indeed bear with me.
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2Cor 11:1-3)

Paul here compares the reality of the New Covenant to the Garden of Eden, where Christ is Adam and the Church is Eve, and where Satan is up to his same craftiness. Paul's desire is to present a pure Church, a chaste virgin, to Christ at the second coming. -OSB

if we are to be presented as the bride of Christ, it should be a virginal bride. This is God's standard. This is not speaking that virginity is somehow better, but that a bride should be a virgin for her groom! If you are going to extend this to include the actual physical virginity, then all of us whom are not virgins cannot be included. Only unmarried virgins are the bride of Christ! This is not the case.

As Paul says, The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: Here Paul states two things: The first, is what has already been stated by UB. The next is that a virgin is holy, both physically and spiritually. Here, Paul equates virginity to Holiness, or purity. Mary is likened to the Church . . . both are married to Christ . . . both are Holy and Pure, both virgins.

Love,
Christina

yes, because why? an unmarried woman SHOULD BE A VIRGIN. She is holy in body, because she did not enter the sin of fornication. This does not make an unmarried virgin more holy than a married woman who has had sex with her husband.

and again, if you take this symbolic speech of Paul as literally needing to be virginal to be the bride of Christ, you, I, and the vast majority of Christendom are not the bride of Christ. do you believe that?

 

[Asinner]

Of course a Bride is to be a chaste
virgin.
Don't read more into this than is there.

The Bride is to remain a virgin.

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and withoutblemish.(Eph 5:27)

 

[sunlover1]

[/b][/u]
Does this say that He thinks it's a
higher calling or just another calling
though?
They made themselves eunuchs.
God didn't tell them to.
It doesn't say those who can should,
It could be implied, I'm not sure.


Yes, Paul says that if someone isn't married
they have more time to give for the kingdom
of God.
Does he say it's the better thing?
Or another thing?




And this is what God commands, or
is this where Paul speaks not of command
but of permission?

Thank you,
sunlover

BTW, are you interested in plain
old truth?
Or are you only interested in looking
at this side of the truth?
Because otherwise we would present
the other (married/sex) part of the
argument and see what God's
plan is in the overall big picture.

Didn't know if you saw this or
what.

 

[Uphill Battle]

The Bride is to remain a virgin.

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and withoutblemish.(Eph 5:27)

brides are to remain virgins? news to me.

 

[sunlover1]

brides are to remain virgins? news to me.

Rethinking marriage now arencha UB?

 

[IamAdopted]

As Paul says, The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: Here Paul states two things: The first, is what has already been stated by UB. The next is that a virgin is holy, both physically and spiritually. Here, Paul equates virginity to Holiness, or purity. Mary is likened to the Church . . . both are married to Christ . . . both are Holy and Pure, both virgins.

Love,
Christina

This doesn't mean that the unmarried are virgins. There are divorced and widow's in there aso. So Paul don't liken a virgin to be more than a widow or a divorcee..

 

[IamAdopted]

Brides are not to remain virgins. Where do you see this?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Rethinking marriage now arencha UB?

nah, I'd still marry my fiancee even if we couldn't have sex....

although it wouldn't be an active part on either of us, no doubt!

 

[Asinner]

if we are to be presented as the bride of Christ, it should be a virginal bride. This is God's standard. This is not speaking that virginity is somehow better, but that a bride should be a virgin for her groom! If you are going to extend this to include the actual physical virginity, then all of us whom are not virgins cannot be included. Only unmarried virgins are the bride of Christ! This is not the case.

yes, because why? an unmarried woman SHOULD BE A VIRGIN. She is holy in body, because she did not enter the sin of fornication. This does not make an unmarried virgin more holy than a married woman who has had sex with her husband.

and again, if you take this symbolic speech of Paul as literally needing to be virginal to be the bride of Christ, you, I, and the vast majority of Christendom are not the bride of Christ. do you believe that?

Being that His Church is a Virgin, and we are a part of His Church, then we are sanctified. God is merciful! He knows that we are passionate beings, sinful, and weak. Because we cannot always Love perfectly, does this mean that there is not such a thing as perfect Love? God has given us an ideal, a better way. We cannot always meet that mark, but that does not negate the fact that it exists! Love is the higher way, as is Meekness, and Purity of Heart, Humility. What is higher than being spiritually pure, but being both physically and spiritually pure (as Paul says). It is the higher way.

Love,
Christina

 

[IamAdopted]

Being that His Church is a Virgin, and we are a part of His Church, then we are sanctified. God is merciful! He knows that we are passionate beings, sinful, and weak. Because we cannot always Love perfectly, does this mean that there is not such a thing as perfect Love? God has given us an ideal, a better way. We cannot always meet that mark, but that does not negate the fact that it exists! Love is the higher way, as is Meekness, and Purity of Heart, Humility. What is higher than being spiritually pure, but being both physically and spiritually pure (as Paul says). It is the higher way.

Love,
Christina

What sanctify's us?

 

[Asinner]

brides are to remain virgins? news to me.

His Church will remain a virgin. The Theotokos too.

 

[sunlover1]

His Church will remain a virgin. The Theotokos too.

We are a body, the church.
We can't have sex, but we can play
the harlot.
These are figurative things.

Mary on the other hand, was a married
human woman.

 

[Asinner]

[

Yes, Paul says that if someone isn't married
they have more time to give for the kingdom
of God.
Does he say it's the better thing?
Or another thing?

Concerning virgins:
So then he that giveth [her] in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth [her] not in marriage doeth better.

And this is what God commands, or
is this where Paul speaks not of command
but of permission?

I will take his authority over my own.

BTW, are you interested in plain
old truth?
Or are you only interested in looking
at this side of the truth?
Because otherwise we would present
the other (married/sex) part of the
argument and see what God's
plan is in the overall big picture.

I have 5 children. I am aware of the other side.

 

[Mobiosity]

The next is that a virgin is holy, both physically and spiritually. Here, Paul equates virginity to Holiness, or purity. Mary is likened to the Church . . . both are married to Christ . . . both are Holy and Pure, both virgins.

Love,
Christina

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. Mary is married to her son? I want to see scripture for that claim. You haven't even proved yet that Mary remained a virgin through her marriage to Joseph and now you want us to believe somehow that she married Christ?
No wonder your beliefs are so mired in error! This one slipped by me initally because I didn't see what it said, I couldn't believe that anyone said it. This just keeps getting off on a tangent.

You need to prove to us, scripturally, that virginity is some how holy, and/or that Mary didn't marry Joseph. I realize you can't prove her virginity, so I'll settle for one or the other virginity=holy or Mary didn't marry Joseph. Your choice. It's your thread.

 

[Asinner]

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. Mary is married to her son? I want to see scripture for that claim. You haven't even proved yet that Mary remained a virgin through her marriage to Joseph and now you want us to believe somehow that she married Christ?
No wonder your beliefs are so mired in error! This one slipped by me initally because I didn't see what it said, I couldn't believe that anyone said it. This just keeps getting off on a tangent.

You need to prove to us, scripturally, that virginity is some how holy, and/or that Mary didn't marry Joseph. I realize you can't prove her virginity, so I'll settle for one or the other virginity=holy or Mary didn't marry Joseph. Your choice. It's your thread.

Ooops.

What I meant to say, was that both are married and both are virgins. Sorry.

I edited it.

 

[Jarvo]

Hi Asinner, have a slight issue with what you said in your original post - [sorry haven't quite figured out how to only quote part of a post yet] - but what you said was:

" She is our first Christian and she was perfect, both physically and spiritually. Through her Godly example, she leads us to Christ."

canyou give any biblical evidence that Mary was perfect?

Jarvo