On the Trinity vs Oneness

[Aner]

That's correct. God appeared before people many times in the OT. Even walked with Adam in the garden. Yet in the NT we learn no man can see or has seen God the father for he dwells in inapproachable light. So who were these men in the OT seeing? The logical answer is it was the pre-incarnate Christ. God the father is not the God of the OT like most people believe. The God of the OT is the entire God head. Father, son and Holy Spirit are all one God Jehovah.

I am lost - where does scripture state that "no man can see or has seen God the father..."?

Thanks,

Greg

 

[Aner]

My understanding of the trinity/oneness conflict is over water baptism and I think its a silly argument since both can be used. I must hold to the doctrine of the trinity because I literally saw Jesus seated at the Father's right hand. I would that everyone had shared this vision.

Llewelyn - Isn't the real issue that both of them deny the man Christ Jesus? And have replaced with a deity?

 

[Hoghead1]

Llewelyn - Isn't the real issue that both of them deny the man Christ Jesus? And have replaced with a deity?

Yes, doceticism, the denial of the humanity of Christ, is one issue here. However, the basic problem with the Trinity is to understand how there can be three in one. If we think of the trinity as consisting of three separate, unique personalities, then that actually amounts to tritheism.

 

[GoodGRACEshus]

Not sure how helpful this is, I found it etched in a second-hand book, kept it because it does make some sense of the Trinity....for me anyway. Since acquiring it I have been told it is a popular avatar on other sites but haven't come across it myself.

 

[Hoghead1]

View attachment 173585 Not sure how helpful this is, I found it etched in a second-hand book, kept it because it does make some sense of the Trinity....for me anyway. Since acquiring it I have been told it is a popular avatar on other sites but haven't come across it myself.

Yes, that drawing is sometimes used and some do find it helpful. Nevertheless, it does leave a lot to be desired. In my view, the Trinity is problematic not so much as because of the greet mystery of God, but because of very confused and muddled thinking on the part of the fathers. They introduce God as a substance, a wholly simple, immutable, nonrelational being, a monad. Then they tried to introduce the highly complex, relational machinery of the Trinity into that monad. Result: confusion and contradiction.

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26

I see a whole lot of energy and light in God the Father. He can bring forth spirits, mass, and all manner of matter according on how he wills it to be.

There is also the Spirit which proceedeth from the father. It is from the Father, however the Lord refers to him as a third person.

 

[faroukfarouk]

View attachment 173585 Not sure how helpful this is, I found it etched in a second-hand book, kept it because it does make some sense of the Trinity....for me anyway. Since acquiring it I have been told it is a popular avatar on other sites but haven't come across it myself.

John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 thru 17, has many references to Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together in redemption.

 

[Hoghead1]

John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 thru 17, has many references to Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together in redemption.

Yes, true. But the rather interesting, peculiar thing here is that the opening of John says nothing about the Deity of the Spirit, not do any of the later passages.

 

[Isaiah55:6]

I am lost - where does scripture state that "no man can see or has seen God the father..."?

Thanks,

Greg

(Exo 33:20) "But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"

(John 1:18) "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

(John 5:37) "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”

(John 6:46) "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”

(1 Tim. 6:15-16) "He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”