on the relevance of this entire topic

[nb_christseeker]

When Jesus comes back and the entire whole schbang melts away and is replaced with the new heavens and earth, what will this debate matter anyway? if we all approached the creation/evolution debate from the perspective of how we would argue it after The End, i think we'd find there's no point in arguing about it at all.

 

[El Guapo]

Heh, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree w/ you there nb. Using that logic, there truly are few things worth discussing and most conversation we engage in during each and every day of our lives is trivial.

The fact is, I've seen fellow Christians, we're talking a few here not hordes, who have been told throughout their lives that Christianity and evolution are not compatible and then when, due to the nature of the evidence, they can no longer deny evolution their faith usually dies as well. Not only that, as the Augustine quote I posted earlier details, when people speak as if they're authorities on a subject but in reality have little concrete understanding of it, their entire store of knowledge is called into question and derided including their Christianity.

If someone came to you claiming that aliens had visited the Earth and were amongst us and then claimed to know God and wanted to introduce this God to you, what would you do?

 

[nb_christseeker]

Heh, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree w/ you there nb. Using that logic, there truly are few things worth discussing and most conversation we engage in during each and every day of our lives is trivial.

This is true, and you've made a very good point you should consider yourself... what IS worth talking about? we can only do 1 thing at each moment, and we know the most important/useful thing to do is to walk in the Spirit, and crucify our flesh, and so that would cut out tons of useless activities that are irrelavent as far as God's will for us is concerned.

The fact is, I've seen a few fellow Christians who have been told that Christianity and evolution aren't compatible and then when, due to the nature of the evidence, they can no longer deny evolution their faith usually dies as well.

I understand that, but then that's not faith at all, but belief in knowledge. Our faith lies in the death and resurrection of Jesus on the cross, and our faith is a gift from God. If someone places too much of their "faith" in men and man's knowledge, no matter what it purports to be true, then their basic sin is a lack of belief and love for and in the almighty.

If someone came to you claiming that aliens had visited the Earth and were amongst us and then claimed to know God and wanted to introduce this God to you, what would you do?

Well, what would Jesus have done? He would have compassion on them, he might gently open up the scriptures to them, and inform them that Jesus is the son of God who rose from the dead.

The evolution/creation debate is pointless in terms of the time it takes to engage in it, and it is pointless in terms of the actual persuasion it can have on real faith. Faith isn't trust in evidence, faith is a gift from God and withstands all the fiery darts of the enemy.

 

[El Guapo]

This is true, and you've made a very good point you should consider yourself... what IS worth talking about? we can only do 1 thing at each moment, and we know the most important/useful thing to do is to walk in the Spirit, and crucify our flesh, and so that would cut out tons of useless activities that are irrelavent as far as God's will for us is concerned.

Well yes it's a good question to ask oneself frequently, but I still disagree that creation/evolution is not worth discussing. It would be nice if we could devote ourselves selflessly and endlessly to ministry. To constantly serving others and pouring ourselves out for Christ. Few if any do that, certainly nobody I have ever met. I personally do not have the faith, stamina, or what have you to live such a life I'll be quite honest; so I will simply try to invoke as much of Christ into my daily life as I can, through His power. That said, I've noticed it's been almost an hour since you first posted your first message and now this one. Truly there was something better you could have been doing than engaging in such a conversation as this w/ me and a few lurkers?

I understand that, but then that's not faith at all, but belief in knowledge.

Well yes, potentially that is true. I am not one to question some one's genuineness in their faith though. Continuing along those lines, however, there's no need to comfort or provide guidance for anyone that is struggling w/ their faith because if they turn away, truly they were never Christians in the first place but instead rested their "faith" in Christianity on earthly knowledge or some other inadequate object. And heck, these people may even still be technically saved, but because of their experience w/ Christianity, creationism, and evolution they are missing out on many of the blessings that a relationship w/ Christ brings w/ it.

Well, what would Jesus have done? He would have compassion on them, he might gently open up the scriptures to them, and inform them that Jesus is the son of God who rose from the dead.

Heh, I had a feeling this would be a problem. I think you missed the point of my question or I simply did a poor job in conveying it. Either way, nobody in this world is Jesus and certainly no unbelievers are striving to be so. While they're certainly gonna look at your life for signs of the Holy Spirit in you, and thus some reason to believe you are in any way different than they, they will also be listening to your words and if your words come off to them as those of a crazy person, they will be less likely to believe you. Yes, God can break through all those differences and reach out to them irregardless, but let's also be realistic. If all that were needed in evangelism were the effort than the best of apologetics and the most of many ministries would be superfluous. Indeed, the very concept of many of the spiritual gifts mentioned in Romans 12 would make little sense. Why be gifted in teaching if no knowledge is necessary beyond the understanding of God's free gift of salvation?

The evolution/creation debate is pointless in terms of the time it takes to engage in it, and it is pointless in terms of the actual persuasion it can have on real faith. Faith isn't trust in evidence, faith is a gift from God and withstands all the fiery darts of the enemy.

I'll have to respectfully disagree to an extent there as well. To some, the evolution/creation debate certainly is pointless and of no concern to them. And those people need not enter this forum or read any of these posts. To others, however, who for whatever reason have an interest in the subject, love of the sciences, or are just troubled by their believed incompatibility, it is very important. It certainly was for me. Yes faith is not trust in evidence, and that is not why I post, but ignorance can stimy faith through fear and uncertainty and if I can help conquer those to help people believe more freely and in good conscience, then I will continue doing so.

 

[nb_christseeker]

cool.

 

[HeatherJay]

I agree that it's pointless (IMO) in the sense that I believe it will not make one bit of difference in regards to salvation whether or not you believed in evolution while here on earth. But I also agree that it's entirely worthwhile to explore things we don't understand in search of understanding. I think curiosity is just one of the many aspects that God designed in us, and it's certainly something that just won't be denied (more in some than in others).

So, I agree with you both, I guess.

 

[El Guapo]

cool.

Heh, yea verily.

So, I agree with you both, I guess.

No!!! You can only agree w/ me! I demand obediance!

(And yes, if I didn't make this clear earlier, I too agree that as far as salvation goes, your beliefs on the origins of things are completely irrelevant.)

 

[HeatherJay]

Oooo-kay. Well, if it makes you feel better my cats are vocalizing up a storm right now (I have smart cats )...that must mean that THEY agree only with you. *going to find a shoe to throw at my loudmouth genius cats*

 

[HeatherJay]

Heh, yea verily.
No!!! You can only agree w/ me! I demand obediance!

(And yes, if I didn't make this clear earlier, I too agree that as far as salvation goes, your beliefs on the origins of things are completely irrelevant.)

And I just realized that this means that YOU agree with ME! So that settles it, then.

 

[El Guapo]

And I just realized that this means that YOU agree with ME! So that settles it, then.

Hmm... that wasn't supposed to have happened. Oh wells, we all agree w/ each other then!