On the murder of the new martyr Fr Daniel (by his wife)

Alexander Nevsky

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Dear brothers and sisters, thank you for your support and prayers. This is the pain which cannot be expressed in words. This is the pain experienced by those who stood at the Cross of the Saviour. This is the joy which cannot be expressed in words, this is the joy experienced by those who came to the empty Tomb.

O death, where is thy sting?

Fr Daniel had already foreseen his death several years before it happened. He had always wanted to be worthy of a martyr's crown. Those who shot him wanted, as usual, to spit in the face of the Church, as once before they spat in the face of Christ. They have not achieved their goal, because it is impossible to spit in the face of the Church. Fr Daniel went up to his Golgotha in the very church which he had built, the church to which he gave up all his time and all his strength. They killed him like the prophet of old – between the temple and the altar and he was indeed found worthy of a martyr's calling. He died for Christ, Whom he served with all his strength.
Very often he would say to me that he was frightened of not having enough time, time to do everything. He was in a hurry. Sometimes, as a human-being he exaggerated, he got things wrong, he tripped up and made mistakes, but he made no mistake about the main thing, his life was entirely dedicated to HIM.

I did not understand why he was in a hurry. The last three years he was busy serving, never taking days off or taking holidays. I moaned, just now and again I wanted simple happiness, that my husband and my children's father would be with my children and me. But another path had been prepared for him.

He used to say that they would kill him. I would ask him who would look after us. Me and the three children. He would answer that he would put us in safe hands. ‘I‘ll give you to the Mother of God. She'll take care of you'.
These words were forgotten too soon. He told us which vestments to bury him in. Then I joked that there was no need to speak about that, we still did not know who would bury who. He said that I would bury him. Once our conversation turned to funerals, I don't remember the details but I did say that I had never been to a priest's funeral. And he answered that it did not matter because I would be at his funeral.

Now I remember many words which have gained a meaning. Now my doubts have dissolved, the misunderstandings have gone.

We did not say goodbye in this life, we did not ask each other forgiveness, we did not embrace one another. It was just another day: in the morning he went to the liturgy and I did not see him again. Why didn't I go to the church that day to meet him? I had thought of it, but I decided I had better get the evening meal ready and put the children to bed. It was because of the children that I did not go there. There was a hand that did not let me go. But the evening before I had gone to the church and met him. I had felt as if dark clouds were gathering over us. And in the last few days I had tried to spend more time with him. Over the last week I had thought only about death and about life after death. I couldn't get my head around either the first or the second. That day my head was spinning with the words: ‘Death is standing right behind you'. The last week everything was so hard, as if a huge load had been emptied out on top of me.

I am not broken. He is supporting me, I feel as if he is standing by me. Then we said so many affectionate words, which we had never said to each other in our whole life before. Only now do I understand how much we loved each other.

The memorial service for the forty days of Fr Daniel takes place on the eve of his namesday and the patronal feast of the future church, 29 December, and 30 December is the feast of the holy prophet Daniel. According to the prophecy of an elder, the church would be built but Fr Daniel would not serve in it. The second part of the prophecy has already been fulfilled.
 

rusmeister

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The only qualm I have (as Dr Stupid) is in the right of the people to spontaneously authoritatively declare a person a saint. There was a podcast on AFR, I sent a query to AFR which they forwarded to the podcaster (a Fr Peter) who defended the naming of Fr Daniel as a new Martyr and saint.

I remain skeptical. I was not convinced by Fr Peter's e-mail. Maybe I'm stupid, but before I say a person IS a saint, I think it right to wait for the Church to formally acknowledge it.

Personally, I hope this happens for Fr Daniel sooner, rather than later (I'd bet ten to one or more that God has taken him as one of His saints. I just don't know for sure, and don't think that we can, if the Church doesn't declare it). I think certain non-Orthodox Christians are saints. But that doesn't give me a right to declare them as such. I'm primarily concerned with people taking definitions of truth into their own hands and not asking the Church.
 
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Ioannis

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The only qualm I have (as Dr Stupid) is in the right of the people to spontaneously authoritatively declare a person a saint. There was a podcast on AFR, I sent a query to AFR which they forwarded to the podcaster (a Fr Peter) who defended the naming of Fr Daniel as a new Martyr and saint.

I remain skeptical. I was not convinced by Fr Peter's e-mail. Maybe I'm stupid, but before I say a person IS a saint, I think it right to wait for the Church to formally acknowledge it.

Personally, I hope this happens for Fr Daniel sooner, rather than later (I'd bet ten to one or more that God has taken him as one of His saints. I just don't know for sure, and don't think that we can, if the Church doesn't declare it). I think certain non-Orthodox Christians are saints. But that doesn't give me a right to declare them as such. I'm primarily concerned with people taking definitions of truth into their own hands and not asking the Church.

Just a thought. Historically, the way the Church recognizes saints is that it starts at the "lowest" level. People venerating him as someone holy. For instance, Patriarch Pavle who, I have no doubt, will be recognized a saint and is already praying for us. Especially for martyrs. As the story goes, as soon as St. Herman found out about St. Peter the Aleut, he immediately said "Holy Martyr Peter, pray for us." The recognition from the Synod comes later. It starts with us. At least, that's the way I was always taught. I could be wrong.
 
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Ioannis

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I just found this after posting the above.

OCA - The North American Saints

Long before an official inquiry into a person’s life is made, that person is venerated by the people where he or she lived and died. His or her memory is kept alive by the people who pray for his or her soul or who ask him or her for intercession. Sometimes people will visit his or her grave or have icons painted through their love for the person. Then a request is made, usually through the diocesan bishop, for the Church to recognize that person as a saint.

And Wikipedia talks about it starting at the grass-roots level.
 
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Protoevangel

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The only qualm I have (as Dr Stupid) is in the right of the people to spontaneously authoritatively declare a person a saint. There was a podcast on AFR, I sent a query to AFR which they forwarded to the podcaster (a Fr Peter) who defended the naming of Fr Daniel as a new Martyr and saint.

I remain skeptical. I was not convinced by Fr Peter's e-mail. Maybe I'm stupid, but before I say a person IS a saint, I think it right to wait for the Church to formally acknowledge it.

Personally, I hope this happens for Fr Daniel sooner, rather than later (I'd bet ten to one or more that God has taken him as one of His saints. I just don't know for sure, and don't think that we can, if the Church doesn't declare it). I think certain non-Orthodox Christians are saints. But that doesn't give me a right to declare them as such. I'm primarily concerned with people taking definitions of truth into their own hands and not asking the Church.
From what little I understand, this is backwards to how Orthodox Saints are recognized, traditionally. It has (almost) always been a grass-roots effort by those who were close to the Saint, who venerate him or her, and only later, does the Church take the time to "officially" recognize the Saint.


EDIT: Sorry Ioannis, I made the mistake of posting without finishing the thread.
 
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rusmeister

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Thanks, guys. I admit that I speak as an individual, as "Dr Stupid" (and so can be wrong). But I think I have a legitimate concern - can "grass roots" (which really means individuals) be wrong? Can they declare someone a saint who is in the long run NOT declared a saint? It is that line when they say "someone IS..." when in fact they are not. It's pious opinion that is NOT dogma. I guess I object when people treat it like a done deal on their own authority.
 
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Protoevangel

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Thanks, guys. I admit that I speak as an individual, as "Dr Stupid" (and so can be wrong). But I think I have a legitimate concern - can "grass roots" (which really means individuals) be wrong? Can they declare someone a saint who is in the long run NOT declared a saint? It is that line when they say "someone IS..." when in fact they are not. It's pious opinion that is NOT dogma. I guess I object when people treat it like a done deal on their own authority.
It's not directly applicable, but I think that Chesterton's quote isn't completely unrelated, either:

Orthodoxy said:
The open, obvious, democratic thing is to believe an old apple-woman when she bears testimony to a miracle, just as you believe an old apple-woman when she bears testimony to a murder. The plain, popular course is to trust the peasant's word about the ghost exactly as far as you trust the peasant's word about the landlord. Being a peasant he will probably have a great deal of healthy agnosticism about both. Still you could fill the British Museum with evidence uttered by the peasant, and given in favour of the ghost. If it comes to human testimony there is a choking cataract of human testimony in favour of the supernatural. If you reject it, you can only mean one of two things. You reject the peasant's story about the ghost either because the man is a peasant or because the story is a ghost story. That is, you either deny the main principle of democracy, or you affirm the main principle of materialism-the abstract impossibility of miracle. You have a perfect right to do so; but in that case you are the dogmatist. It is we Christians who accept all actual evidence- it is you rationalists who refuse actual evidence, being constrained to do so by your creed.

And if they "might" be wrong, I still don't see the virtue is being public about my skepticism, unless I have a real, credible reason to do so.
 
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Ioannis

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Thanks, guys. I admit that I speak as an individual, as "Dr Stupid" (and so can be wrong). But I think I have a legitimate concern - can "grass roots" (which really means individuals) be wrong? Can they declare someone a saint who is in the long run NOT declared a saint? It is that line when they say "someone IS..." when in fact they are not. It's pious opinion that is NOT dogma. I guess I object when people treat it like a done deal on their own authority.

The problem is the grass roots is where it has to start. If you read the link I posted, you'll see that when it is brought to the bishop's attention, a formal inquiry is made and the person's life studied.

For a martyr, it's actually pretty clear. Did person die for the Faith? Have there been times where a grass-roots movement did not end up with a glorification? I have no doubt that there have been, though I could not cite one, now.

Remember, Orthodoxy is not meant to be legalistic. It's meant to be a way of life and use what is available to get closer to God. Outside of dogma, nothing is set in stone.
 
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Dorothea

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What's so amazing about Fr. Daniel is that he converted around 580 people to Orthodoxy in just a 10-year period! Eighty of those were Muslims. That's pretty saintly to me, but I'll be happy to wait until the Church decides on that issue.
 
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OuterWater

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Memory Eternal. Preaching the gospel is to Muslims is more dangerous these days than it was preaching it to Romans in Apostolic times. Thank God for brave priests though.

I have to admit that I was confused by the title though and wondered at first how a man could be considered a martyr if murdered by his wife. Now I understand though.
 
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rusmeister

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Thanks, again, guys.

I take your points, I certainly agree with GKC and accept the idea of grass-roots in general. I appreciate your points and do accept that a consensus develops over time - and I suppose that's the rub - the consensus over time.

I still have reservations, though. If I think my father-in-law to be saintly, can I start drawing icon of him (after his death, of course) and calling him a saint and try to get others to acknowledge this as well? I guess it's a question of where we draw the line. My father-in-law is formally agnostic (though baptized), but I see no one in my life now who more thoroughly fulfills the law of Christ and sacrifices of himself so absolutely, so I do think of him as an "agnostic saint" - although I wouldn't dream of actually declaring him a saint - despite my extensive personal experience, I don't feel that I, as an individual, can do that.

I have absolutely no argument with Fr Daniel, I am ready to venerate his icon as soon as the Church does - and I am happy to praise his deeds in life in the meantime. I don't see that I have a right on my own, or even with a bunch of people, to affirm, on essentially my own authority, that he IS a saint, although I support pious opinion as such on the matter - as pious opinion.

Maybe we'd just talk in circles. I won't go on; I've expressed my reservation and it stops there.

Please forgive me if I seem contentious - that is not my intent.
 
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Lukaris

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Fr Daniel strikes me as a martyr for the faith in the struggle against Satan, may his memory be eternal and an example of the grace our Lord energizes us to persevere in our faith, pray that the evil principalities be shattered & salvation to those enslaved by them. Through the intercessions of the Theotokos & all the saints to the Holy Trinity.
 
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