On the cross

[davekinky]

If the alleged Jesus was/is also God how do we know he suffered on the cross?
If God is everywhere he already knew what it felt like to be crucified
Dave

 

[Hidden in Christ]

First of all, there is a difference between having a knowledge of what something is like and actually entering into the experience. God understands all. For example, he knew and understood every physical and emotional pain of the two thieves that were crucified beside him. This caused him, being the loving and compassionate God that He is, to have empathy for them. But when Jesus died on the cross, God entered into their experience. His death on the cross was a symbol of God taking upon Himself every sorrow of humankind. That's what Isaiah meant when he said "Surely he hath born our griefs and carried our sorrows."

As for how it was possible for God the Father to be on the throne in heaven while God the Son was being crucified on earth, well that is just one of the numerous miracles of our powerful God. He does things that go beyond our finite understanding. They are too great for our pitiful little brains to comprehend. Yes, He confounds the wise with his wonders and causes the proud to humbly adore and worship Him. Miracles happen every day when you know Jesus. Praise God!!

 

[Shekinahs]

Why would knowing the end result negate Jesus' decision to be on the cross?

 

[Spike~]

"God" was in a mortal human body, capable of all feelings, including pain.

Course, you'ld think an all-knowing God would know certain techniques to overcome the pain. Mind over matter and all. Go figure.

 

[davekinky]

"God" was in a mortal human body, capable of all feelings, including pain.

Course, you'ld think an all-knowing God would know certain techniques to overcome the pain. Mind over matter and all. Go figure.

exactly, switch off the old pain receptors and its just a laugh innit? nails in hand, bored, done that

120 lashes of the whip, mmmm, enjoyed that - note to self - invent bondage

dave

 

[Messenger30]

I had it explained to me that Jesus dying on the cross showed just how much God loves us. He not only died for our sins but died also to show us how much we are loved. Even if Jesus knew exactly the messure of pain that this would intial does that make it less....I believe not. To know what pain would be involved and still die for us shows a love deeper than I can imagine. No greater love than God who sent his only begotten son to die for us.....He showed a love that I could never measure up to or be worthy of but He loves me! That is amazing Grace!

Love and God Bless,
Messenger

 

[davekinky]

I had it explained to me that Jesus dying on the cross showed just how much God loves us. He not only died for our sins but died also to show us how much we are loved. Even if Jesus knew exactly the messure of pain that this would intial does that make it less....I believe not. To know what pain would be involved and still die for us shows a love deeper than I can imagine. No greater love than God who sent his only begotten son to die for us.....He showed a love that I could never measure up to or be worthy of but He loves me! That is amazing Grace!

Love and God Bless,
Messenger

look dude answer me this - is Jesus also God with all of God's superpowers?

 

[Kelly]

Remember when Jesus prayed at Gethsemane the night before? He asks God, if it's in his will, to please rescue him from his fate. He was aware of what was to come, but along with being God, he was a man.

 

[Kelly]

look dude answer me this - is Jesus also God with all of God's superpowers?

His powers are given to him from the Father. He could have asked for relief, or to simply destroy the Romans as they beat him, but that's the whole point. He took the pain, the abuse, for us. He was the last sacrifice.

 

[Hidden in Christ]

Sure Jesus was all-powerful. But along with sacrificing his life for us, He also sacrificed His ability to not feel pain. He could have exercised mental abilities that would have prevented him from feeling the pain, or He could have called thousands of angels to physically set him free from the cross. But He did not do that because that would have defeated the purpose of His sacrifice. His sacrifice was motivated by love for us and the purpose of it was that we might have spiritual life, love, joy, peace and forgiveness, closeness to God... Ephesians 2 describes how that by the sacrifice on the cross, Jesus destroyed the enmity between humankind and God. That was His purpose. God is too wise to do anything without a purpose. Do you think a truly wise God would die on a cross just to show He could do it without feeling pain? Why would He feel He needed to prove to us that He could do that? If God is so high above us and does not care about us, He would not feel He had to prove anything to us, in my opinion. Why would he ever come to earth and live in poverty in the first place? Just to prove that He could do it? That would be a pretty narcissistic God. If I were God and had been God for billions and trillions of years, by the time 33 A.D. rolled around, I would be pretty bored and sick and tired of doing stuff just to show I could do it. That would lose its thrill after a while don't ya think?

 

[davekinky]

Sure Jesus was all-powerful. But along with sacrificing his life for us, He also sacrificed His ability to not feel pain. He could have exercised mental abilities that would have prevented him from feeling the pain, or He could have called thousands of angels to physically set him free from the cross. But He did not do that because that would have defeated the purpose of His sacrifice. His sacrifice was motivated by love for us and the purpose of it was that we might have spiritual life, love, joy, peace and forgiveness, closeness to God... Ephesians 2 describes how that by the sacrifice on the cross, Jesus destroyed the enmity between humankind and God. That was His purpose. God is too wise to do anything without a purpose. Do you think a truly wise God would die on a cross just to show He could do it without feeling pain? Why would He feel He needed to prove to us that He could do that? If God is so high above us and does not care about us, He would not feel He had to prove anything to us, in my opinion. Why would he ever come to earth and live in poverty in the first place? Just to prove that He could do it? That would be a pretty narcissistic God. If I were God and had been God for billions and trillions of years, by the time 33 A.D. rolled around, I would be pretty bored and sick and tired of doing stuff just to show I could do it. That would lose its thrill after a while don't ya think?

ah, so you reckon God SWITCHED OFF the old superpowers, like in Superman 2 when Clark Kent goes into the Kryptonian chamber and comes out as a 'mortal'? Clever! Hey he ain't God for nothing is he?
So when he resurrected that was like Superman tricking the Kryptonian supervillains and removing THEIR powers NOT his!!!???

So coming to Earth as a man and living in poverty was just a bit of a laugh to waste 33 years or so?

Readers poll - if YOU had God's superpowers and had 33 years to do whatever, what would YOU do?

Dave

 

[Spike~]

I'ld turn all the hot girls' water into wine.

So Jesus wanted to show that he could take the pain? Does that make him a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]?

 

[Hidden in Christ]

Just a note about the poll of what would you do if you were God and had 33 years on earth... When thinking upon this issue, remember that one must take into consideration what they would do if they could be God on earth for 33 years AFTER having been God in heaven for countless years. To use human terms, and hoping not to sound disrespectful, Jesus had already 'been around the block.' He had created the universe and all the people that had ever lived. He knew the very deepest thoughts and emotions of every person who had ever existed. He had all worldly knowledge, He already knew everything about philosophy, science, math, literature. He could already speak every language known. It is interesting to speculate on what we would do if we were God, but really I am glad I am not God because the world would be a pretty crazy place if I were. Oh, and another thing, why do you think He would have created human beings in the beginning? To have people under Him to affirm His authority? I believe God chose to create us to bring joy and honor to Himself, but not because He needed to establish His authority. In other words, He did not create us so He could rule over us like a tyrant and say 'Go here, do this, now or else...' I do not believe God is like that.

By the way, the purpose of the resurrection was to show that we could have new life in Christ. He died on our behalf, to symbolize the death of the old sinful creature in us, and He rose in our behalf to show that springing forth of new divine life could occur in us as we believe on Him. How's that for something to do with 33 years on earth? None of us ever could do that, only God.

 

[davekinky]

Just a note about the poll of what would you do if you were God and had 33 years on earth... When thinking upon this issue, remember that one must take into consideration what they would do if they could be God on earth for 33 years AFTER having been God in heaven for countless years. To use human terms, and hoping not to sound disrespectful, Jesus had already 'been around the block.' He had created the universe and all the people that had ever lived. He knew the very deepest thoughts and emotions of every person who had ever existed. He had all worldly knowledge, He already knew everything about philosophy, science, math, literature. He could already speak every language known. It is interesting to speculate on what we would do if we were God, but really I am glad I am not God because the world would be a pretty crazy place if I were. Oh, and another thing, why do you think He would have created human beings in the beginning? To have people under Him to affirm His authority? I believe God chose to create us to bring joy and honor to Himself, but not because He needed to establish His authority. In other words, He did not create us so He could rule over us like a tyrant and say 'Go here, do this, now or else...' I do not believe God is like that.

By the way, the purpose of the resurrection was to show that we could have new life in Christ. He died on our behalf, to symbolize the death of the old sinful creature in us, and He rose in our behalf to show that springing forth of new divine life could occur in us as we believe on Him. How's that for something to do with 33 years on earth? None of us ever could do that, only God.

excatly so the old resurrection shuffle was just a bit of a laugh wasn't it? just like'making humans' - why would some eternal deity be insecure enough to worry about some carbon based lifeforms worshipping him or not?

if god is some huge universal galactic force i doubt we're much more than bacteria to him, if that

stop putting your human emotions onto a universal abstract! leave our universal deity alone you Yahweh lovers!!

 

[Kelly]

excatly so the old resurrection shuffle was just a bit of a laugh wasn't it? just like'making humans' - why would some eternal deity be insecure enough to worry about some carbon based lifeforms worshipping him or not?

if god is some huge universal galactic force i doubt we're much more than bacteria to him, if that

stop putting your human emotions onto a universal abstract! leave our universal deity alone you Yahweh lovers!!

Are you really curious about our answers or just trying to be funny? God loves his creation. We were made to worship him. Why do you think humans who don't worship God often find substitutes both spiritual and carnal to 'worship'? It's in our very nature to show our appreciation and devotion, some just miss the target and worship false gods, money, celebrities, pop culture, sports teams, etc.

 

[Messenger30]

look dude answer me this - is Jesus also God with all of God's superpowers?

I am a dudette....Jesus is God in the form of a man...Jesus is what God would be if he were just a man...God loved us so much that he sent his only begotten son to die for us but also to show us love and teach us of eternal life.

Love and God bless,
Messenger

 

[Hidden in Christ]

excatly so the old resurrection shuffle was just a bit of a laugh wasn't it? just like'making humans' - why would some eternal deity be insecure enough to worry about some carbon based lifeforms worshipping him or not?

if god is some huge universal galactic force i doubt we're much more than bacteria to him, if that

stop putting your human emotions onto a universal abstract! leave our universal deity alone you Yahweh lovers!!

OK, think about this: we've been pondering the question of what we would do if we could be God, right? And everyone has different answers, right? Why do you suppose that is? Maybe because we are all different and we have different personality traits, interests, priorities, etc. Well, did ya ever think that maybe God has a personality, too? And did it ever occur to you that maybe His personality is radically different than any person you have ever met? If you were God, maybe you would have created people just for a laugh... maybe you would have come to earth and lived a poverty stricken life for 33 years just because you were bored and wanted a change of scenery. But it would be arrogant and narrowminded of you to assume that all other human beings would do the same if they were God, and likewise it would seem arrogant to assume that Jesus Christ has the same philosophy and priorities as you do. You have to get to know God and what He is all about before you can make assumptions or allegations about His motives, just like you have to get to know people sometimes before you can determine their character. In the Bible, we have a record of the words and teachings of Jesus. If you examine those carefully, you will find that He had some ideas that were profoundly distinct from the great majority of people. Based on the writings of the four Gospels, what evidence do you have to support your claim that if Jesus were God, then the cross was only a joke and had no real significance for us?

 

[Hidden in Christ]

And do you think all the miracles Jesus did for people and all His talk about forgiveness and God loving us was just a sick scheme to get our hopes up, so that He could mock us, "Haha, I'm God. Had ya fooled didn't I?" Is that how you think it was? And we are also told that Jesus wept when his friend Lazarus died. So you think on the inside He was laughing at us and His tears were just a facade?

 

[SolomonVII]

If the alleged Jesus was/is also God how do we know he suffered on the cross?
If God is everywhere he already knew what it felt like to be crucified
Dave

Interesting point. Jesus, being God, does not just suffer the pain and humiliation of the scourge and the cross temporally, but eternally. Experiencing all the pain of the world for all time into eternity itself, yet he still chooses to create the world and even deems it to be good.
No matter how infinite is suffering, God's willingness to take on suffering even into eternity alludes to an existence which even infinite suffering cannot diminish.
In God's presence, suffering diminishes to the infinitesamal in comparison to His glory. Without God, infinite suffering is all that remains for us.

 

[Yase]

Christ doesn't suffer eternally. Hebrews 12 says for "the joy set before him (he) endured the cross, scorning it's shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God". He's not suffering in the throne room of God.